What is a normal number of Ghosts?

I’ve been treating grammar more seriously over the past few months, but only recently I dared to change the ghost settings from low to normal (idk the name, might be normal).

Rn this is the number of ghosts I have… (img below) I feel like it is ok, and I don’t have any problem managing them rn. I just review the topic and in 3 days (or a bit more for the funnier grammar points) they’re gone.

image

What I’m a bit uncomfortable with is that idk how many ghost reviews are “healthy” to have. I’m a bit afraid I might end up like the guy who posted about having 500 ghosts a few hours ago :ghost:

All this to ask, how many ghosts do you all have, and how many do you feel are in a healthy manageable range?

4 Likes

depends on your ghost settings and how many grammar points you are adding. When im not adding any new points its low single digits. if im adding a ton of new grammar points it can be high double digits

4 Likes

I doubt there’s a normal number. I guess it depends on what a normal learner is and how normal their average broader knowledge base is. Then there’s settings and habits, self critique level, and so on.

4 Likes

I have about the same number of ghosts.
Most of them won’t go away.

4 Likes

The normal amount is whatever amount I have right now. Every other number is too many or too little. I won’t expose my amount though you just gotta guess.

5 Likes

Is it equal to the number of species of opossums in the world?

6 Likes

I have zero as i have the setting disabled🤪

3 Likes

It all depends on your personal way of studying, the time you can allocate to reviews every day, etc. Personally as I do Bunpro + Wanikani and I have limited time every day I try to keep my ghosts under 30. If my ghosts reach 30 or higher I stop adding grammar points, if my ghosts go back under 30 I resume adding grammar points.

6 Likes

I think your number of ghost is a good indicator of your amount of immersion and study outside of bunpro.

If it is low then great, maybe consider adding more grammar points to your reviews,

if its’ too high obviously you have not been exposed enough to some of them, look for something else than a bunpro summary lesson for these, you need your brain to be more excited about them.

5 Likes

Like everybody said I don’t think there is a ‘normal’ or ‘healthy’ number, it will depend on your studying style.
I’m adding 3 new grammar points every day (slow and steady) and I have around 15 ghosts, but it’ll probably go up when I’ll get more into N3 and above.

2 Likes

Yep – tolerance level. I’ll only add new grammar points when I have 10 or fewer ghosts but most recently I’ve been coming down from 24. Means I’m going through N2 at an absolute snails pace but thats fine, honestly. It’d go faster if I was immersing more but it’s just not the priority right now, so bunpro+wanikani are sorta just at maintenance levels right now.

2 Likes

sounds great to me, going fast works for short term memory but usually seems like a bit of a gamble on the longer term to my experience.

One more thing I find is that the ghosts amount depends on how tolerant you are towards your answers so I think there can’t be a universal right amount.

What I mean is that if I have been guided through fail and retry to the right answer by the hints, I will arrange my answer to be failed in the end anyway, because I consider my knowledge wasn’t there, the last thing I want is to be complacent in my study.
That means that I end up with quite a lot of ghosts but that’s what I want as I have enough time to deal with them (around 50 currently I think)

3 Likes

I sometimes do this as well to purposefully add a ghost for a specific sentence and/or grammar point I feel I should work extra on, feels like it helps by forcing me to encounter more often. I tend to do this for grammar points that are further along the SRS tiers (around Adept 3 or higher).

1 Like

I have Bunpro set to create ghost reviews whenever I get a question wrong. The most I have ever had was around 45. When I was adding 3 new grammar points a day, it stayed around 30. Now that I’ve stopped adding new grammar points, the number stays around 10.

1 Like

i turned ghost reviews off long ago. the whole concept is flawed to me because you end up memorizing the sentence instead of acquiring the grammar point. this could have been corrected by introducing what i called “poltergeist reviews” every time a different sentence.

in the end i think resetting the reviews and reading alot of the example sentences manually is a much more natural and frustration proof option.

even asking this question shows you have hit frustration levels. thats not good.
as i always say: bunpro is a supplement - not the main-course. you want to learn japanese and not play ghostbusters.

3 Likes

That person had a bit of a special case, having taken a long break from BP, and most of their ghosts were coming from vocab that had previously been at a fairly high level, but they’d forgotten/got-rusty-on due to the long break.

For someone who’s been using BP steadily for a while, the pattern of ghosts will be different: Most of them will be due to learning new grammar, and occasionally from older grammar (the occasional mistake) and so-called ‘leeches’ (items that persistently trip you up and keep getting wrong).

I like this question. It’s a good one, and one I haven’t really fully considered before. And yet, I seem to already have a pretty strong opinion of what I think is the ‘right answer’. (Of course there’s no ‘right answer’; I’m just trying to express how ‘certain’ I feel about this answer. I don’t (yet) have strong reasons why I think it’s actually right. :sweat_smile: )

The ‘right answer’, according to my opinion (:sweat_smile:) is:

“No more than twice the number of Beginner items you currently have.”

  • If you have fewer than twice your current Beginner count, you’re ‘good’.
  • If you have more, you ‘should’ stop doing new Lessons until your Ghost count settles back down to less than twice your Beginner count.

Why? Off the top of my head, the reason that comes to mind is that I think of Ghosts as signs from my Review stack to, “Slooooow right down there, Bucko!” In other words, if I’m generating lots of Ghosts, it’s because I don’t have a good grasp of the current grammar I’m spending time reviewing. So, instead of ‘learning’ more with new Lessons, I should just stick with actually learning the ones I’m having trouble with.

On the other hand, it’s okay to have ‘lots’ of Ghosts (even up to twice your Beginners) because they only go up to Ghost-SRS level 4, which (IIRC) is about a 2-day interval. So, after about 4 days – assuming the Ghosts aren’t from ‘leeches’ – you should be able to clear them all out (while perhaps generating a few new ones from other Reviews along the way).

In other words, unlike full Review items, they don’t accumulate in the long term. So, you can ‘easily’ clear all your Ghosts within less than a week (if you were to focus solely on clearing your Ghosts). So, therefore, having ‘a lot’ of Ghosts is not nearly as much of a problem as having (for example) too many new Lessons.

Also, Ghosts will automatically slow down your regular Reviews – at least in comparison to the ‘extra study’ you’re doing by re-reviewing ghosts. So, even if you have ‘lots’ of Ghosts, they will naturally ‘hold back’ and ‘slow down’ how much you’re reviewing full Grammar points.

In other words, they’re like a ‘brake’ on your reviewing of full Grammar points. And the fewer full Grammar points you’re reviewing, the fewer new Ghosts you’ll generate. It’s like a negative feedback system.

Too many Grammar points → More Ghosts generated → More time spent on Ghosts instead of Grammar points → Less time on Grammar points → Fewer Ghosts generated.

The important thing to remember, though, is not just to allow Ghosts to slow down your Reviews (which they will do automatically), but to also use Ghosts as a signal to yourself to slow down on new Lessons, which you have to manage by resisting the temptation yourself to add new ones.

Last thing: While I say “No more than twice the number of Beginner items you currently have,” this is actually just a ‘default’ upper limit. You may want to actually keep the number of Ghosts quite a bit lower than that. It all depends on your own pacing and ‘taste’ for ghost-busting. But if you have more than double the number of Beginners, then I’d say you’re probably in for some trouble with getting overwhelmed and potentially burnt-out.


But that’s all just off the top of my head. I’m open to being wrong, and hearing other folks’ opinions too.

3 Likes

666 would be a normal number for ghosts

2 Likes

I don’t like having too many ghosts. I have it set to minimal, and manually turn cards into ghosts. I don’t want beginner cards i see every day becoming ghosts; it gets ridiculous. If it is an adept card that was able to get to 2+ day interval, then I will make it a ghost manually if i get it wrong, which is a workaround for how I would like it to work.

1 Like

This exactly. I find to have the same sentence coming back instead of the grammar point a serious problem.
I noticed that if I fail a sentence at least once more as a ghost, I fight for my brain not to switch into sentence memorisation mode rather than grammar understanding mode… and almost always fail.

1 Like

I personally don’t worry too much about how many ghosts I have. I try to clear my review queue every at least once every day. After that, if I still have some more time, then I learn some new items.

So my rule is: Learn enough new grammar to maintain a comfortable but challenging rate of reviews.

I feel that explicitly keeping a very low number of ghosts is counterproductive. Take, for example, an absurd hypothetical case, just to illustrate: Let’s say, you learn each grammar point to mastery before you learn the next grammar point. With this approach:

  • It would take centuries to clear N5.
  • You won’t really learn much because you’ll never see mastered grammar points again, but you’ll still forget them.
  • You won’t learn to distinguish similar grammar points from each other.
  • You end up memorizing specific sentences rather than general grammar rules.
  • You won’t be fully using your time throughout each day.

Of course you wouldn’t do it this way, but any strategy that doesn’t fully use up your daily time budget will exhibit some variation of the drawbacks above.

1 Like