Which particle for "mitai" みたいに vs. みたいな

[Albaby305]

Okay, having a lot of trouble distinguishing when to use the ni vs. na particle in connection with みたい for expressing similarities. The English explanation makes a ton of sense in the abstract. Use “na” when describing a noun (and mitaina becomes an adjective), and “ni” when describing a verb or adjective (and mitaini becomes an adverb). Simple enough.

But the examples don’t map to that. “Easy to crack, just like an egg” is given with the “ni” particle, even though the comparison seems to be between the unknown object and an egg (both nouns). Similarly, “I want to teach Japanese, just like Koichi” is also given with the “ni” particle, though I also would think that would be an adjective. All of them seem to be comparing nouns, and all of them take the “ni” particle.

What am I missing?

[picklepig2451]

So the thing being compared in these examples is often the whole phrase after みたいに, so に is used because it’s a ‘verb phrase’ if you like, not a noun

For example,
卵みたいに割れやすい → ‘egg’ is being compared to ‘easy to crack’
サンドイッチみたいに、パンに挟んだ → ‘sandwich’ is being compared to ‘put between bread’
山が砂みたいに崩れた → ‘sand’ is being compared to ‘crumble’ (as for the mountain, it’s crumbling was like sand - might be a way to think of this translation)
こういちみたいに、日本語を教えたい → ‘koichi’ is being compared to ‘teaching japanese’

Additionally, where would the な go in most of these sentences if you were to try and use it? What would be after the な in the first sentence, for example?

[travv0]

In all of those sentences, it’s saying the verb “is done/happens to” something in a similar way as it does to the thing みたい is attached to. That’s why it uses the adverb みたいに instead of みたいな.

Even in the English sentences, the “like” goes with the verb. You can remove the stuff in between and say “Easy to crack like an egg.” or “I want to teach like Koichi.” You’re saying how you want to do that verb, with “like an egg” and “like Koichi” being adverbial phrases that cleanly map to “卵みたいに” and “こういちみたいに” and modify the respective verbs.

Contrast this with something like one of the みたいな examples:

先生みたいな人になりたい。
I want to become someone like my teacher.

Here, in both the English and Japanese, the “like my teacher” and “先生みたい” are adjectival phrases that modify the noun they go with (someone/人).

In short, if you’re saying that one thing is like another thing, you use みたいな, if you’re saying something is done or happens in a certain way, you use みたいに.

[polevata]

Slight note, because it’s the difference between adverbial and adjectival, the に version can also modify adjectives. Ex) 電子レンジの光は夕日みたいに黄色い

[Albaby305]

Thanks for the replies - and I see my mistake. Two mistakes, actually: looking at the English translation instead of the Japanese sentence the phrase was in, and missing that the comparison was not to the other noun but to what the other noun was doing. IOW the difference between, “He’s strong like an ox” vs. “He pulls a plow like an ox” - the comparison in both sentences is comparing “he” to the “ox,” but the former is comparing the nouns but the latter is comparing “he” to what the ox does. Which would have been more obvious if I had been looking at the Japanese rather than the translation.

Thanks for the help!

[polevata]

I think you’ve got the point right, but your examples aren’t quite right. “He’s strong like an ox” is actually a statement on how “strong” he is. So in that case you’d use みたいに as well. You only use みたい when it’s a direct comparison between nouns: His fingers are like little twigs. 彼の指は小枝みたいです

[Albaby305]

I think I get how to parse it now. In English, we would consider the comparison as being between the subject and the object of the sentence. So in all these sentences…:

“Albaby fights like a boxer”
“Albaby is strong like a boxer”
“Albaby is like a boxer”

…the comparison is between “Albaby” and “a boxer.” Those are the two things that are “like” each other, in their strength or in the way they fight.

But in Japanese, mitai isn’t modifying “boxer” in those first two sentences. It modifies “fights” or “strong,” and so takes the “ni” adjective. It would read, “Albaby (topic) like how a boxer fights” or “Albaby (topic) like how a boxer strong.”

This has been very helpful. I now feel adequately prepared to move on to being confused between sou vs. you vs. mitai, rather than just mitai alone.

[casual]

Long-term you probably don’t want to think too much about direct correspondence between Japanese and English sentences, and instead treat each language as its own thing.
But in case of みたいな, maybe it’s helpful to translate it as “X-like”.
Remember that the construction given in the lesson is みたいな+Noun, so “XみたいなY” becomes “X-like Y”.
Without that Y, the construction is incomplete, both in English and Japanese.

egg-like (what?) object
卵みたいな物体

Or to take an example where that noun is a bit reordered:

There is something child-like about Marianne.
マリアンナには子供みたいなところがある

Or, sometimes you can extract it into the topic so it becomes implied for みたい

This object is egg-like
この物体は卵みたい

This last example on the surface doesn’t have either な nor に, but it will get it back when combined with any grammar that uses nominalization:

この物体は卵みたいなの
This object is egg-like

Good luck and have fun with そう and よう!

[hx9]

Do you want to become…
蛇みたいな人になりたい。
…A snake-like person (な-Adjective)

蛇みたいになりたい。
… or snake-like? (Suffix)