Why are the reading topics so scarce?

Bunpro
#1

Sorry if this sounds rude, and I want to preface this by saying that I am a complete newb, so any sort of sarcasm is basicially a reflection of my own progress. Though Ive been studying Japanese for a while, ive only recently made an account and am still at like N4 level.

Ive noticed that there are a total of only 17 “Book Club” related topics and a total of 60 topics about all things-reading. Usually when I joined a community about Japanese, the book sections were the ones that are especially active. But a total of 17/60 posts is so abysmal in comparison to the 4k posts of other topics that it makes me question the productivity of this approach in general. Neither do I see anyone post about book-process or actual immersion in general. Talk about books is basicially non-existent.

The closest thing is “Have you written your Japanese sentence today?” which makes me chuckle a little because is seems as ironic as saying “An apple a day keeps the doctor away” just rephrased to “a single sentence a day keeps the creeping sense of inferiority away.” like doing the bare-minimum and more about feel-good consistency than serious engagement with the language-- though of course at my level I am definitely not one to talk lol.

Ive also seen some threads be incredibly hostile towards criticism of obviously ineffective learning approaches in general, or be incredibly sensitive to the learning approaches. This did make me think about the efficiency. I dont dislike feel-good type of communties, but I think it a degree of harshness is a vital part for growth and the only way to keep a community from derailing into an echo-chamber … maybe because I am a firm believer that crticism is (and must) always automatically perceived as harsh since it neccesarily questions (fundamental) believes of someone.

Of course I might be completely wrong, and if there is a good reason for why there are only 60 reading topics, please enlighten me.

6 Likes
#2

TLDR btw: “Why doesn’t this community talk more about reading? Other communities do. Is it because people here avoid criticism, prefer feel-good methods, or is there some other good reason I’m not seeing?”

Usually people who read alot are passionate about it and want to discuss the books.
Thats what I meant by saying that in most other communities focusing around Japanese, Ive seen the reading-sections actually be the most active.

1 Like
#3

Maybe they’re too busy reading

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#4

Well, i have also noticed that there isnt much talk about books.
I’ve recently made a post about reading something and it barely got any engagement, BUT I think that is more because Bunpro at its core focuses more on Vocab and Grammar study than reading and most of the people here either arent at the stage of reading yet, or dont connotate bunpro with reading since it doesnt focus on it, and therefore doesnt come to mind.
Speaking of my own experience here, since I usually dont think about the topic of “reading” when thinking about opening Bunpro.

Thinking about it, I guess I would welcome it if Bunpro somehow managed to add a “Reading” or “Immersion” category to their focus on SRS. Something that combines their approach to Vocab and Grammar with Immersion. That would maybe also boost some of the immersion categories.

Tho i have no idea how that could be implemented lmao

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#5

I’m reading the text in the video games I’m playing right now. Does that count?

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#7

Im generally talking about novels since it isgenerally seen as the most efficient way of learning a language bar none

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#8

Ive added this to my TLDR but I will just paste it as a reply, too:
Usually people who read alot are passionate about it and want to discuss the books.
Thats what I meant by saying that in most other communities focusing around Japanese, Ive seen the reading-sections actually be the most active.

1 Like
#9

Perhaps you can help start some for the community! :slight_smile:

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#11

Hello! Welcome to the forums and thanks for raising a very interesting topic!

I think that pretty much all serious learners of Japanese are in agreement about the benefits of reading – it’s one of the best ways to reinforce grammar and vocabulary you’ve learned in context, and can be tremendously helpful in developing a deeper and more intuitive sense of the language.

If I were to take an educated guess as to why there aren’t so many reading-related topics, I’d suspect it’s because learners who are at the sort of level that they’re able to read are just out there reading, and not necessarily talking about it. Meanwhile, learners who are confused about specific grammar or vocab points are asking here since those are the focuses of Bunpro.

That said, I know that the “book clubs” here (like the Yotsuba! one) were quite popular, and we’ve had some discussions about trying to start them up again. (I’m relatively new to the staff, but I’ve always been a passionate reader and would love to be a part of them.)

In the meantime, you’re more than welcome to start topics about books you’ve read, whether it’s recommending stuff you’ve enjoyed, or asking questions / starting discussions about specific sentences you’ve come across in your reading. I suspect many people (myself included) would very much enjoy participating in them.

Once again, welcome to the forums and thanks for starting a worthwhile discussion!

5 Likes
#12

A lot of the book readers are over on the Wanikani and/or the Natively forums! :grin:

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#13

I have been reading (almost) every single day for around 2 years. I don’t know about other people, but as for me, the reason I don’t create my own topic is because I don’t even know how I would start, or what to talk about. Usually what I do is read, write a small summary of what I read, and then post it on journaly and wait for corrections. But if you create your own one then I would try to participate, as long as the book you pick is interesting enough for me.

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#14

I think being “hostile” against criticism of “obviously ineffective” learning styles is what prevents an echo chamber. First of all, there are a lot of learning styles that are working (for some people more than for others), by criticising the less effective ones harshly, we would reduce out options to " the most effective ones" only talking about the same 3 things, hyping them up and ignoring other options, that’s an echo chamber right there. Second, not everybody is even interested in being as effective as possible, some might be more interested in the fun of learning a language, some might have different goals in language learning, some might be happy to read read their first book in 10 years. But by focusing on efficience and critising those people “harshly” we would chase them away, again crazing an echo champer of a single type of person who only cares about efficiency.

So by criticising other learning methods harshly, you’ll be more likely to create an echo chamber. The mix of people and different ways of learning is what makes a community well rounded.

That isn’t to say, that you cannot criticise inefficient methods, but the other part might not care about that, so maybe just keep that in mind :slight_smile: If instead you come from a place of actually trying to be helpful (instead of criticising), threads get less heated. You might find out the other part was never interested in getting help, though.

11 Likes
#15

There’s too much provocation packed in one OP to comment on everything, but with reading clubs I think it’s really simple.

It’s a lot of work to run a book club. If you’d like to start one, by all means please do.

I do add LNs I read to my natively, but the chance that there’s a club going for the novel I’m reading at any given time is pretty slim.
I don’t read LNs “five apples a week”, it’s either feast or famine.
Questions I have about LNs usually don’t get a satisfying answer, questions by other readers are already answered, and posting comments like “I found it cute too” makes me feel hollow.

So all in all, I find it difficult to participate in book clubs on these other forums mentioned above.

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#16

I can only talk from my circumstances but I’ll echo what others say. I read as much as possible time permitting but I’ve not got that much interest in discussing the books I’m reading. In general I’m an introvert and I mainly post when I don’t understand a grammar point or there is some bug.

As for bunpro it definitely helps when I read and see a grammar point I learned here and I’ve even used points from here when speaking or writing so it’s definitely had a positive impact.

Like most apps I wouldn’t say it’s enough on its own. This isn’t a criticism, I think it’s impossible to make an app that can perfectly teach a language without any other input outside of the app itself. So it’s better to make an app that does one thing properly IMO.

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#17

I hate to be like “this” but… “this”!

I personally am not interested in the “most effective learning method.” I am interested in the learning method I am most likely to enjoy and do consistently. Ironically, it is also the most effective learning method because it’s the one I will do. It doesn’t matter how effective something is if you don’t do it.

There seems to be a huge focus on min maxing Japanese learning in some communities and im really glad I haven’t really seen that here. It’s okay to learn how you like!

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#18

Yeah, I generally just e.g. join a read-every-day challenge on Wanikani or look through Book Clubs on Natively because the comunity formus there are a bit more active in that regard. Why create a new book club here (which is a lot of work), if there are already very active bookclubs you can participate in on other sites?

I also just don’t really feel the need to share what I’m doing with the world, so I’m generally content to just read books on my own and occasionally e.g. use one of the vocab lists a book club has compiled.

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#19

I understand where you’re coming from but I dont think not talking about books is a very good diagnostic tool for the quality of this community.

There are many people who read but don’t talk about it.

I love to read. I like talking about themes in works. But, at the level I’m reading in Japanese, there’s not really much deep and meaningful discussion to be had. Even if there was, the chance of finding someone reading the same book as me feels really low. So I’ll just read it by myself.

There are a plethora of reasons why people might not be coming here to discuss Japanese books. I dont think it means that much.

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#20

If I had to take just a random stab in the dark, I think it could be because Bunpro has a lot of very self directed learners. We’re not quite as gamified as a lot of other apps/probably don’t have as many features that give a dopamine hit with bright colors/sounds etc.

I honestly think our community is one of the best/least argumentative among the many resources that exist, but that is because most people are very マイペース and just use the forum more for having a chat or exchanging ideas rather than looking for activities to keep their interest in Japanese alive and well.

In saying that I am all for book clubs. They’re just a lot of work, as pretty much everyone here has mentioned.

Edit: @cafelatte if anything I think a lot of us read more than some other sites, but just don’t feel the need to start groups about it.

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#21

To be honest I don’t understand the point of language learning book clubs and have always muted/ignored them so I am maybe not the target audience for this post but if anyone is in fact reading 読んでおきたい世界の名作６話 外国の物語 I will talk to you about it :sweat_smile:

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#22

I understand the point of them, especially for a language like Japanese where it’s easy to stagnate. I think a lot of people just want to actively share their journey with others, and books is a good way to do that (a lot less dry than discussing random grammar points :sweat_smile:).

And sometimes people just want community. I’ve been there. You get so caught up in online life you look around and realize you haven’t seen anyone in real life for weeks :rofl:. Sometimes it’s just nice to be part of something.

Edit: No not reading that book. What’s it about?