Why do you use を with emotions?

I found this sentence in the vocab

彼との再会を喜ぶ。
I am glad to see him again.

This confuses me for a few reasons, I can’t really wrap my head around how you “glad” something? を marks the direct object that is having something performed upon it right? So how does this make sense conceptually? Why wouldn’t you just use で or に here?

I thought about this and at first thought its about physically doing something to the object, however I don’t think that’s the issue, It’s more that this is not only a non-physical verb, but that it doesn’t seem to be a verb that causes any change onto the object either. You can “think up” an idea for example, which is non-physical, this idea came to be just because of your thought, thus you have acted upon it innately. But with an emotion, how does the noun get effected in anyway? It really doesn’t, so why use を? How is it the direct object being acted upon by our emotion? Isn’t it just the target of our emotion? に, or the situation under which we are that emotion? で?

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Even in English you don’t “glad” something. “Glad” is an adjective so that wouldn’t make sense. What does make sense in this case is to look at the meaning of the kanji which is more like “rejoice”. You can rejoice over something which equates to celebrating that thing. You can view it as I celebrated our reunion (ie I am happy about our reunion).

This is a common pitfall with trying to directly translate words while maintaining their identity as a particular part of speech. A very common example of the inverse is the adjective 好きな. We often translate 「◯◯が好き」as “I like 〇〇.” When actually, in keeping with the fact that 好きな is an adjective, a more appropriate translation is “I am fond of 〇〇”

This is an issue I have with most of my Japanese ESL students. They often say “ I like food is 〇〇” In English “like” is used as a verb and not an adjective leading to this strange interpretation on how to use it. A common way to correct them is to teach them the meaning of the word favorite since it can somewhat alleviate issue, albeit with giving a more superlative meaning to the translation. There is also the possibility of equating the verb “like” to 好む which maintains the part of speech. However from the Japanese perspective, 好む seems overly stiff and formal. This is somewhat similar to how we wince when hearing “I love you” from a person we have known for 1 week as opposed getting butterflies when that same person says “I like you”

Unfortunately direct translations, especially those portraying feelings, are often incapable of perfectly replicating the nuance. Just try to associate overlaying concepts to words when trying to translate them. For example in this case. I rejoiced over our reunion therefore I am glad about our reunion.

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The problem with that is no matter how you put it someone is going to say something like that. Obviously its different, however to be glad is a state in english and states are often expressed as verbs within Japanese, it doesn’t change what I am asking. You completely failed to provide any knowledge on the actual subject at all.

The way 好きな is used makes perfect sense, it has no comparison to what I asked. I went out of my way to show that I am asking about the core logic of it, but I have no choice but to express that in English and therefore use English vernacular.

You spent all that time writing that without any intention of discussing the actual question at hand and failed to even discuss the particles at all. This is why so many people find the Japanese learning space to be so toxic, its filled with so many know-it-alls who in fact do not know much.

Their question is clearly about particle choice, not misunderstanding the type of word 喜ぶ is.

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Personally I think it comes down to を being a bit broader than the way it is usually discussed. Something can be acted upon, even without being necessarily changed even though It’s hard to conceptualize.

Your sentence is a great example of this.

「彼との再会を喜ぶ」The meeting is the object of your emotional state. You are doing something to that meeting in your own emotional bubble, but in the real-world obviously nothing is occurring to it.

Also I do think both に and で work too, they just have a different nuance. に would mark the endpoint of target of your emotion and で would mark the condition under which said emotion is occurring.

を - Object of your emotion
に - Target of your emotion
で - Condition under which your emotion prevails

Edit: Also upon further thinking about it, I think you may be able to think of it as を vs で shows the originating point of the emotion, what I mean is along the lines of で seems like it’s saying it is what is the driving force behind this emotion in you, it brought it out of you, を makes it sound more like it is you stating how you feel about it, you are treating the meeting as an object of your own emotion, not as a situation that brought the emotion out of you.

This is just me sort of expounding on my own thoughts here though, I would be curious to learn from anyone with a better knowledge pool than me on the matter though.

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While I get what you’re frustrated about, that’s no need for such rapid escalation. If you’re asking specifically about particle choice, not just the nature of 喜ぶ. I wasn’t trying to dodge your question, but rather explain why is used in the first place.

To actually answer your question, を is used because 喜ぶ treats the thing you’re happy about as an object being “acted upon” rather than just the cause of your happiness. In English, “being glad” is a state, but in Japanese, 喜ぶ is an action, which is why it takes instead of something like . This isn’t necessarily unique to 喜ぶ either. You see the same thing with verbs like悲しむ (別れを悲しむ). The thing you grieve over, the thing you rejoice over. These all get , because Japanese treats these emotions as actions directed toward something rather than just internal states.

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Thank you, I appreciate the help.

After reading it through a few times I can sort of understand. I find it odd that this seems to occur with emotions in particular but I can’t put my finger on what other ways it should work so I’ll probably need to think on it harder. The directional difference you stated is fascinating and I do think that part at least makes sense to me.

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This is actually quite an interesting topic and opens up a whole can of worms regarding how to think about Japanese grammar. I will try to give an overview without going too far down an irrelevant sidepath.

There is a general argument within Japanese linguistics and amongst grammarians over how to actually describe Japanese grammar. One complaint that has come up at various points in various areas since the post-war period is that Western linguistics and grammar has been applied to Japanese where it really doesn’t fit. This argument is still ongoing to this day and can get rather complicated. One point of contention in this argument is that the idea of transitive and intransitive verbs (他動詞と自動詞) is not suitable for Japanese. There are various reasons to be for or against this. One clear reason is that the particle which indicates the direct object (or the accusative case, if we speak in terms of cases) doesn’t consistently behave in the way you’d expect such a marker to act. The question you have raised, about psychological/emotional verbs using を, is exactly one such example.

In Japanese dictionaries these kinds of verbs are not reliably listed as being transitive or intransitive between different publishers. Sometimes they’re listed as being both, which is really quite rare for Japanese verbs. For example, 喜ぶ has the corresponding transitive twin 喜ばす which is arguably just a form of the causative 喜ばせる. You’ll notice that the direct object of 喜ばす is whoever is being made delighted, which is much the same as used “to delight” transitively in English (He delighted the audience). So then are both 喜ぶ and 喜ばす transitive despite somehow having completely different sorts of things marked by を? What even leads a publisher to choose whether to list a verb as transitive or not? If it is sometimes used with nouns marked by を does that make it transitive? This is the crux of the issue and a debate even amongst the experts writing dictionaries.

Let’s assume you want to say that both are transitive, 喜ばす quite uncontroversially and then 喜ぶ being perhaps more borderline but it takes a noun marked with を so that seems good enough for labelling purposes. However this argument seems to fall down when we are confronted with another use of を which foreign speakers can struggle with, being with movement verbs such as 歩く. 歩く is pretty much uncontestedly intransitive yet it is also used in patterns such as 公園を歩く(To walk in/around/about the park). So probably just the fact that を can be used with a verb is not enough to make it transitive.

Looking back at the psychological/emotional verbs, as you have noticed the thing marked by を is also not what we would imagine to be a direct object (neither is the park in the above example). In fact, the thing marked by を is the cause or source of the emotion and not something being acted upon by the verb. There really isn’t a way to cleanly put this into English without fundamentally changing the grammar/structure. The flipside of this is that the grammatical analysis (based on Indo-European grammatical ideas) then doesn’t seem to make any sense. This is what I think @drunkgome was getting at - perhaps you have been a little unfairly abrasive in response.

So to answer this:

The simple answer is just this is how it works in Japanese and the point of confusion is arguably that the majority of grammatical models of Japanese struggle account for this kind of usage.

If you would like to maintain を as something that only indicates what might be normally understood as a direct object when used with psychological/emotional verbs then Wiktionary uses this definition:

感情を伴う行為の対象であることを表す。

Meaning, you could still consider these verbs to be actions of some sort and somehow the cause of these actions is the direct object of them.

For further reading, the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar has an entry on this usage of を and you can find various discussions about it online if you search in Japanese. There are more reasons to be suspicious about the traditional analysis of を which I have not gone into (usage with certain adjectives and aux words, (non-)usage with できる, usage with てある, etc).


Something that may or may not help: You brought up “thinking” as something where you could perhaps see how the subject of a thought is like a direct object. If you consider the difference between と思う and を思う you can see that を思う lends itself more to being translated as thinking about something. It may also be useful to consider this in relation to psychological/emotional verbs. E.g., 〇〇を喜ぶ —> To be delighted about 〇〇. Comparing this with △△と喜ぶ may further highlight the differences, wherein と does not indicate the subject of a thought/feeling so much as the way in which one thinks/feels.

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This is pretty much exactly what I was looking for, thank you for taking the time to write this out. It was not an irrelevant side path at all. I will save this and reference it, I greatly appreciate the help.

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A little aside and I am sure you have answered some variant of this a million times, but do you think that the “self-move” "other-move’ explanation generally maps better than transitive/intransitive?

Also I definitely agree with the 歩く examples being another use that does not match how it is generally taught however I still do find myself having an easier time accepting that than what OP’s sentence is. I do think this is mainly due to the physical nature of walking vs a more stative like verb such as 喜ぶ. It really feels like a double-whammy having the verb be both non-physical and presumably self-move and then still use を.

I enjoy the way you described it, as you are fair to many different viewpoints and ways of thinking about it but I do wonder if there is actually a “correct” answer and way to make a methodology.

It often feels like learning Japanese is an endless debate inside me of being greatly depressed when I realize something I was taught was a “lie-to-children”, but also appreciating the fact that I would never have been able to get to the point I’m at without those over-simplifications. Particles perfectly symbolize this to me, they are so simple in many ways but also feel impossible to have a true perfect grasp of.

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In my personal opinion they are just different words for exactly the same thing. I think the “self-move”/“other-move” idea is just a way to explain transitivity as a concept to beginners who aren’t too familiar with grammatical ideas in general, which is a lot of people to be fair. I personally think using the more widely accepted terminology is better as then it is easier to read about the same concept across multiple sources without getting your wires crossed (that is the reason jargon exists to begin with) but I do appreciate that the “self-move”/“other-move” explanation helps things click for some. In my experience most Japanese people don’t know the difference between 他動詞 and 自動詞 so the naming convention in itself isn’t what’s making the difference, in all likelihood, but rather the surrounding explanation.

I left this out but this usage is much easier to grasp as there are similar things in English (“Every day I walk the trail”, “I’ll cross the bridge”, “I walk that road alone”, etc) although it is fun to contrast with a sentence like “I walk the dog” which can really confuse Japanese people when they learn English.

I think grammatical models are only “correct” insofar as they respond to some goal for creating the model. Disagreements are normally due to some more meta disagreement about what is even being spoken about, in my experience. If the model is being used for teaching grammar to foreign learners, especially beginners, then you could argue endlessly about what is best.

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You don’t have to think too much about it. Different languages just view the world differently. Over time it’ll start making sense.