10/16 Major Update - Grammar/Vocab Page 3.0

[simias]

So far I like it, it’s smoother and the space is better used.

@Daru

One complaint we received a lot with the previous design was how much space the Notes field took up. Which was great if you were an avid note-taker, but if you weren’t, it just got in the way.

As a tangent: I would really like to be able to add images to the notes. I realize that it could quickly eat up a lot of storage if people start uploading gigabytes worth of images but I think with reasonable limits (and maybe limiting the feature to paying users?) it shouldn’t be a massive investment for bunpro.

My use case is that I sometimes encounter a particular grammatical construction or vocabulary while, say, playing a videogame or reading a manga, and I would like to be able to reference that directly in the notes because I find that tying a study element to a real-world example in context really helps with retention.

Currently I just quote the text in my notes but having the visuals to help with recollection when relevant would be even better for me.

EDIT:

Oh I just noticed that part:

@Daru

Community Preview

The Ask button has evolved to the Community Discussion section!
You’ll now be able to see the latest posts in the forums for each Grammar Point, as seen here.

This is a great change IMO.

[simias]

@Wizna

The sidebar should be collapsible. If I’m on a grammar page, I’m there to study the grammar first and foremost. The sidebar takes up 33% of the page space, but is not 33% of my interest.

But that was even worse before, no? You had the margins on either side, and then two 50% columns in the middle with the grammar only on the left side.

Also the sidebar disappears when the window gets narrower (at least on desktop, not tried on mobile). So it’s not wasting space per-se, you wouldn’t want the grammar point to take 100% of the width in landscape mode, it would just be annoying to read. So effectively it makes use of otherwise dead space.

@Wizna

The information held within the sidebar is interesting, but not often useful. I think it’d be better if Notes were housed in the Sidebar (I’d say instead of the current information, but perhaps there could be a tab to switch).

I quite like the data currently in the sidebar, but I agree that having notes here would also make sense. Ideally I guess it could be configurable/collapsible, but I’m also fine with the current layout myself.

@Wizna

Additionally, I think Structure and Details should be together and towards the top of the page (or in a Sidebar tab).

Isn’t Structure is at the top of the page already? As for “details” I personally never found that super critical, I rarely even look at it personally.

[CursedKitsune]

I like the community part at the bottom and on the whole everything is looking better than before. As people are talking about the sidebar, I agree that making it collapsible would be nice. As for the information in the sidebar, I think having notes displayed there sounds good but also perhaps have the 使い方・接続 pinned there for easy reference whilst reading the rest of the page? Right now the 進行状況 section is partly collapsible within the sidebar so perhaps having a few different collapsible headers (notes, 使い方, 進行状況 , etc) pinned there might be useful? There is something to think about there at least anyway.

Overall it is much better than the old design so thank you!

[elro1822]

I too think that a collapsible (hidable!) sidebar would be great - With the added point here being to ensure the information on the page becomes left aligned with the grammar point up the top.

As for the Details / Examples / Resources links at the top, it might be nice to allow these buttons to scroll down the page with you ‘in place’ - I really am not a fan of them reappearing in a different size in a different location. The same could be said for the < > buttons too, so they are always in a unified location.

To match concerns about the information being too wide, a button or shortcut to shrink and expand might be nice?.

Like all comments so far, I think you’ve done work with the overhaul! And these comments are just user feedback of course <3

[unoplusunoistu]

I really like the new design. It looks a lot simpler and cleaner.
However, I am going to miss the notes side-by-side with the rules, and example sentences. Like what you said it’s great if you’re an “avid note-taker” because I’m definitely one of them.

I normally like to revise the explanation to something simpler and make sentences of my own while looking at the example sentences in the notes section. But now, I have to constantly scroll up and down to refer to them and put them on my notes.

Is there a way to improve this? or somehow…even… have an option to revert back to the other style?
That way, the users have two layout styles to choose from.

Thank you for all your hard work! I really do appreciate it.

Keep up the good work!

[unoplusunoistu]

Sorry on the topic of this, rather than scrolling all the way to the bottom to check the “Details” to see whether or not the register is standard (一般) and formal (硬い) closer to the top? Or even right below the grammar point heading. (see screenshot below)
Maybe right there the “Structure” heading

[Wizna]

@simias

But that was even worse before, no? You had the margins on either side, and then two 50% columns in the middle with the grammar only on the left side.

Like I said, this update feels like a step sideways and this is why. I feel things have just shifted around without really changing for the better. It’s just different, so at this point why the change at all?

@simias

Isn’t Structure is at the top of the page already?

Yeah, I just think it makes logical sense for it to be together with Details, those two work well as a little duo when they hold hands, not when one’s at the top and one’s at the bottom.

Edit: (sorry, posted prematurely trying to find a pagebreak)
I do want to say that after working with it for another hour or so, it bothers me less, but I would really like to be able to change things in that sidebar. Being constantly shown my progression just isn’t as useful to me as just about anything else. Some things that might be cool to see in the Sidebar are:

• Notes
• Structure & Details
• Synonyms
• Reference links
• A “Review now” button, or some other way to create a custom Cram deck on the fly could be very useful.

[simias]

@Wizna

Like I said, this update feels like a step sideways and this is why. I feel things have just shifted around without really changing for the better. It’s just different, so at this point why the change at all?

I agree with your other points but I really think this is unfair, the grammar point takes the entire width of the body of the page instead of being crammed on one side, that’s a huge change and for the better. The sidebar is… well, on the side in what would otherwise be dead space.

Also it’s important to keep in mind that the sidebar disappears when you reduce the width of the browser window or browse on a mobile phone for instance, so you can’t have anything too crucial in there otherwise it will become extra-annoying.

The one change that I think would make most sense would be to put this widget on the right side instead of left and maybe make it collapsible so that it doesn’t end up so “in the face” when you open a grammar point in your web browser.

[Vesicularorb]

Thanks for the update, and for the fix, looks way better now.

Do you happen to know if there is any possibility we can get the sidebar to be collapsible as well? Or get it to be put on the right side not the left? I think it would be far less intrusive if put on the right side personally.

[Talos]

As always, this is a fantastic update! Thank you so much for you dedication to making the site better, and to always incorporating user feedback in your design decisions.

I’m already a lifetime member, but if I could throw more money at you all - I would! (No, but really – if there’s a way I can contribute more, even just to buy the staff a round of beers, DM me )

[Talos]

Reading through this thread in detail now, and I thought I’d comment on some of the feedback I’m seeing as well.

@Vesicularorb

Do you happen to know if there is any possibility we can get the sidebar to be collapsible as well? Or get it to be put on the right side not the left? I think it would be far less intrusive if put on the right side personally.

Agreed, I think a right-side sidebar would feel a bit more natural to me as well.

@unoplusunoistu

I normally like to revise the explanation to something simpler and make sentences of my own while looking at the example sentences in the notes section. But now, I have to constantly scroll up and down to refer to them and put them on my notes.

This makes sense to me too. I’d love to see the notes popup added to the (ideally right-side) sidebar, so I can be looking through the detailed explanation as I write my notes.

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Of course, all of my prior comments still stand - I’ve seen bunpro do nothing but improve since the day I joined, and I’m confident if a few tweaks are needed to give some of us the best experience, they’ll come!

[davebp]

And yet, vocab is still in beta

[Daru]

Hey everyone!

I see that most of you are asking for a collapsible sidebar. We’re already seeing options on how to implement this.

As for the Notes, on the original design they lived in the Sidebar, but we found in testing that there was too little space for good note taking. It also made the layout really favor big screens only, which isn’t good for a responsive and accessible design.

We also had the idea of making the notes pinnable at the top of the screen so they would follow you as you scrolled through. What are your thoughts on this approach? @Wizna @simias @CursedKitsune @unoplusunoistu

I’m also very happy to read the overall positive comments. Please keep sharing your feedback, it really helps us make the design better!

[simias]

Personally I think that being able to pin notes and/or the structure would be very useful.

For the structure in particular I often find myself scrolling back up to double-check while reading through the explanations, especially on a smaller phone display. I think merging Structure and Details may also make some sense as @Wizna proposed.

I also agree that putting that stuff in the sidebar would probably be too cramped, at least IMO, and of course it needs to be visible by default on all devices, not just on desktop.

[Wippo]

As a german I have to say:
Das neue Update ist DER Hammer!

(just had to bring out an excuse to share that the D E R shortcuts make up one of our articles ;))

[chicharron]

I would also like this. I think having the “register” right on the top too is better, instead of having to scroll all the way down to see if its a standard or formal grammar point.

Everything else looks good to me but I find the side bar a little distracting. Not sure if moving it to the right side would help, or to be able to collapse it.

[cpaskach]

@Wizna

Additionally, I think Structure and Details should be together and towards the top of the page (or in a Sidebar tab). These have always been a good way to summarise a grammar point that you’re mostly familiar with and I believe they both used to be towards the top of the page for easy reference.

I definitely second this!

Also all the sidebar suggestions!

And I’m personally not a huge fan of the notes displaying above everything else on the grammar points that you have notes added to.

But anyway I love everything the Bunpro team is always doing to improve the platform, you guys do a fantastic job, and this is overall yet another very welcome update!

[bunnypro]

I like that the sidebar is now on the right!
It’s a small change, but it’s now so much better!

[rdennison7]

I am curious, what was the reason behind the minor change? It seems rather pointless to just swap sides. Some people will get annoyed regardless of what direction content will shift. I think it’s honestly best policy to keep things as-is for a few weeks and accumulate feedback and adapt.

A lot of the responses here are well-thought out but a lot of them are knee-jerky (mine included). Knee jerk reactions aren’t inherently bad, as there could be something immediately and obviously broken, which doesn’t seem to be the case.

I think once the dust has settled and people are used to things, then process user feedback and determine if their feedback is valid enough to implement. But I have to say this level of reaction from the Bunpro team isn’t something I am fully onboard with.

It’s appreciative that the team is responsive, but there’s a line in the sand that separates responsive action from naive action. In my humble opinion I think it lies on the latter. Wait, gather data, then react if need be.

[veritas_nz]

We are still looking into other options such as collapsibility etc that many people have expressed being something that could be useful, and it’s true that we usually don’t make changes to things straight away without gathering a data/more opinions etc…

However, in this particular case it was generally agreed upon that most English speakers are in the habit of reading left to right, so the statistical information would feel more at home on the right, as it is indeed not the focus of the page.

We unfortunately couldn’t have a Beta for this update (for technical reasons), so if we could have had one, I imagine this would have never have seen the light of day anyway!