A way to practice your sentence building skills

Recently, I created a topic about how I wanted to practice my sentence building skills. I got some good answers but in the end I decided to try to find a way myself too. It is not perfect but I believe I found a decent way to practice sentence building. I was looking for it because I really believe forming sentences is very important, you may learn the rules in Bunpro but you really need to practice it.

Again, it is not perfect but I do this:

On one page I open a website called englishinuse.net, this website has random English sentences. On another page, I open Google Translate (this is the “not so perfect” part). I try to translate English sentence on the englishinuse to Japanese and type it in Google Translate. It translates it to English and I compare the sentences.

Sure, Google Translate (or Deepl) is not perfect but I believe, if Google translate can understand you, you probably are close to a good translation.

Maybe it could help someone so I wanted to share it.

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I do this occasionally as a sanity check. Thought sometimes if you are writing naturalistic sentences google will translate it very wrong so you have to be careful.

Oh, thanks for the website! I also like translating sentences and seeing how my interpretations line up. Usually I use DeepL, Google searching, or rope in my English-learning friend to quiz each other. Great to have a resource that can just spit things out at me.

Disclaimer: Long post, but in brief: I’d discourage continued use of this method. This got away from me as I was writing it, but the longer I thought about it, the worse of an idea it seemed. I really wanted to make my reasons for my opinion clear, so I let it stand.

Anyway.

This can be nice as a sanity check like Sidgr said, and I, myself, did in fact use machine translators when I was just starting out, to check certain words and set-phrases in isolation before I found other, better tools (good dictionaries go a long way). But, by your own admission, using machine translation is an imperfect solution.

This might sound harsh, but I’d actually go a step further and say that it’s straight-up a bad solution for what you’re trying to use it for, particularly as a learning tool. Don’t let Google grade your homework. It’s like setting yourself up for failure, or at least restricting your opportunity for growth. Grading your successes and failures according to a machine translator will work sometimes, but one tends to learn from their mistakes more than their successes.

What will you learn when you put in a sentence and Google spits out complete garbage? You may have been on the money, but Google (or whatever other service) may not be capable of recognizing when you’ve ‘got it.’

As a personal anecdote, this happens to me all the time, because I sometimes throw things in there to see how much machine translators have grown since I last checked, and I know what I’ve written is perfectly sensible. It’s an especially bad problem with casual-register speech patterns.

This is to mention nothing of the fact that it’ll be hard for you to organically get a sense for how the all-important background mosaic of Context :tm: interacts with the language. Subtextual or contextual information missing from the text ‘proper’ is one of the most famous modes of machine translator failure, and Japanese is notorious for working this way, so if you grade yourself that way, you’ll develop a really weird habit of wanting to expressly include all your information textually which would make you come off as unnaturally stiff, or long-winded. Just one example of how this could stunt your growth as you learn.

Bottom line, this sounds like a great way to severely hamper your ability to get a sense for how to put naturalistic/casual sentences together. It might make an oookaaaay stop-gap tool, if only for the most basic of statements, depending on where you are in your learning journey right now, but that’s the best I’d ever say about it.

I don’t mean to rain or your parade, but I can’t really bring myself to just move on from reading this without saying something. You should figure out a better method that’ll work for you without letting yourself settle into getting serious feedback from machine translation. Maybe find someone that’s either provably fluent in Japanese, or whose abilities you highly trust, to vet the sentences you put together? If you don’t already have someone like that, someone in this community might be able to fill the role. In fact, to put my money where my mouth is, I’ll even nominate myself, if you don’t have anyone else and want to give that method shot, assuming I’m of an appropriate skill level to help you out. In fact, maybe a dedicated sentence-vetting thread would even be a good idea.

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I definitely agree with Silver on the whole here. Though I did state I sometimes use DeepL for this, I didn’t stress that it’s my absolute last ditch option, and I typically use it as a stop gap before I send it over to my friend, only if I’m reaaaaally not sure and need a little helping hand.

I didn’t have time to mention it earlier, but I would recommend using Bunpo-check. Again, it’s not perfect - no AI is. However, it’ll (usually) spit up errors without telling you what’s wrong, which forces you to look at the sentence again and really break it down to see what you’ve buggered up on. It’s not foolproof, but it can be a useful tool.

When my friend and I do these kinds of sentence exercises, it typically goes like this: I’ll send him a “hey, what’s this in Japanese/English?”, and send him my translation attempt either in English or into Japanese. Then he’ll usually çȘç„¶ă ă‚ˆ me until he sends me his own translation back. Then we’ll compare. We’ll take a look at the original sentence before I got my grubby little hands on it, then we’ll look at my attempt - if they’re the same, great! If not, then why? We’ll do the same for him too, since we’re partners here. It’s actually a lot of fun! We both get a lot out of it at the end of the day.

I can say from experience teaching JHS kids with Chromebooks, you often can tell the Googleçż»èšłć…ˆç”Ÿ sentences from the ones that come from the kids themselves. It can definitely be used to your advantage in bits and pieces, but I would agree that finding a flesh and blood human being will be more beneficial in the long run.

re: a sentence vetting thread - we do have this, which I ashamedly don’t utilise much myself. Might be worth trying, I know a lot of great advice gets shared there!

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I realize this is not a perfect solution like I said. Thing is, sure, you may found someone to send your sentences. You can use Bunpro forums or apps like HiNative but you can’t do that all the time. People won’t be able to help you all the time. If you can find a native speaker and you teach each other, that’s great too. But I am not at that level either.

So in the end, if I translate a sentence and both Google Translate and DeepL understand it, probably native speaker would understand it too. Sure, it may not be a perfect translation but no one becomes fluent without making tons of mistakes.