Completed all grammar points!

Took quite some time! At a pace of 5 grammar points a day, except for a couple days where I did 10 (e.g today since I just couldn’t wait)

Since I will mostly be doing reviews of the grammar points (and not taking notes of new ones) I will have more time to inmerse deeper or do other activities so I’m quite happy with this achievement. Bunpro is a great tool and I am very happy to see how far I came in terms of understanding grammar along these six months.

I’m still nowhere near my objective but I will keep working towards fluency. I’m probably going to take N4 on July so I’ll be getting ready for that!

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Doing all of this just to take the N4 is crazy work… It looks so satisfying though!

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wow you’re going to be ready for n1 in no time

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Wow that is cool I like it

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Congrats ! That’s really impressive. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
Do you feel like 5 grammar points a day was manageable ? How did you manage to make everything stick ?

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As someone who also completed all grammar points on an other account with a pace of 10-20 grammar points a day (then reset everything again because there was nothing left to do) I can tell you that really understanding japanese Grammar is very difficult for a westener but also rewarding:
Of course you can simply memorize everything without truly understanding what makes what work, but once you understand each particle to the brim, learning grammar points is more like seing ideas/combinations of things that you have already learned. If you see a grammar point you havent heard before, you will already know what it means. You think “Oh, of course. That makes sense.” and thats it. You have remembered it. Bunpro is good, but not close to giving you enough information to really understand grammar: For example,
I find it insane how some basic concepts like ⓪が are not even spoke about, let alone other more advanced systems.

I’m curious what you have in mind here, if you don’t mind sharing.

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It was definitely manageable, about 45 mins-1hr a day for studying the grammar points (without counting reviews, of course). Transcribing information into paper is what helps me making the grammar points stick!

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Still a long road ahead! I have to inmerse a lot and study more vocab still. But I think it’s not gonna be VEEERY long, hoping I can get there in about 3 years

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How do you feel that your comprehension of content out “in the wild” (outside of the safety of the example sentences) has improved? Are you seeing a difference?

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(Im german, so sorry if my english isnt perfect.)
Thing is, most things are explained in a very western-oriented way. It takes alot of english words to define a relatively simple japanese concept.
Because I feel motivated I will share something I noticed a while ago:
Japanese works alot with modifiers. Like alot alot. To form a sentence, usually that which precedes a word modifies that which follows it; In a (A)(B) scenario, usually (A) modifies (B). It is almost never the case that (B) directly modifies (A).
Example: in:
ある女の子が先輩のアパートで行われた飲み会に参加した日 (…)
The entirety of ある女の子が先輩のアパートで行われた飲み会に参加した ends up modifying/saying more about 日.

It made me wonder, why then do we call particles markers?
Why not just use this same principle on them?

I.e ドレスを: を should not be seen as the thing that modifies ドレス as an object, but rather:
を is the concept of an object as a “thing/symbol”, and ドレス modifies that objectified “thing/symbol” as a dress.
Any type of word+particle is seen as a single unit, where (A) modifes (B) and both are linked to eachother.
That is also why in speech, particles are often pronounced as part of the word attached to it. (example:ドレスを often sounds like ドレソ.)
Basicially, particles as not simply grammatical connectors, but as integral parts of a conceptual framework in which the whole unit—(word + particle)—takes on a specific functional meaning,
with the word modifying the broader concept introduced by the particle. It’s almost like the particle acts as a container for the meaning, and the word fills it with specific detail or identity.
So in the case of ドレスを, i am arguing that the particle を isn’t “assigning” ドレス as the object in a conventional sense,
but rather establishing the abstract notion of “object-ness,” which ドレス specifies by identifying what that object-ness refers to: a dress.
This also corresponds to the “stage-like” nature in how japanese grammar works, and how any sentence seems to be building up to a conclusion.
We are introducing these concepts, going through stages of conceptual grammatical/logical structures and asigning them a new meaning each time.
allow me to explain: On a stage, we have our concepts, which are always the same. It is the rough outline of a theater. Now we introduce the things inside the theater.
“As protagonist we have today: Paul!” in japanese: “As object we have today: a Dress!”
Meaning particles embody abstract frameworks and words provide the content.
The engines act like a button; We have prepared our roles, now we need to make them play.
How do we make them play? By either assigning action (Verb), existence (Copula) or attribute (Adjective).
This same modifier-modifiee rule also applies to those engines of course:
ドレスだ would therefore not correspond to saying “a dress as existing”, but rather, we define existence as a dress.
This is also why the endings of these engines are always the same. (verb => always ending with う, Copula => Always だ (Of course including Forms of だ), Adjective => Always い or な / Also copulae in a way)
Because these are the frameworks; The kanji preceding them are simply defining the framework as something more specific.
In a more philosophical way, this somewhat represents Japanese focus on order, harmony and logic, where each aspect has a specific role to play, and that role is center-stage. It aligns well with the idea that Japanese grammar isn’t just about assigning grammatical roles but about progressively establishing contexts where meaning emerges in structured layers. This might also explain why Japanese allows for so much implied information—once the framework is established, additional details can be left out because the conceptual space has already been defined.

You dont have to literally embody this logic while translating and can still see particles as markers, of course.
It just helps to see it through this lense, because it will open up the backwards-thinking of the japanese language.
Literally, often reading japanese sentences backwards is easier. And this is one of the reasons.
What is intrinsicly a “marker” for us westeners, is in actuality a “markee” (the opposite) in japanese grammar.
But by seing it through this lense, all of a sudden, you dont have to translate backwards anymore;

Backwards:
ドレスを着る
3. 着る (Wear)
4. を (a (somewhat implied in を))
5. ドレス (dress)

Frontwards:
ドレスを着る
1. ドレス specifies the following framework as “a dress.”
2. を introduces the framework of “object-ness.”
着る (to wear) activates the framework, assigning an action to the concept.

Note that I have been studying japanese for only around 200 days alongside a ton of normal schoolwork, so im nowhere near perfect and this is just casual observation. Only languages I can really understand are Latin, German and English-- but I have noticed some similarities between German and Japanese in particular.
(Mostly that both languages are very flexible-- and beautiful :stuck_out_tongue: )

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Huge difference. I mostly struggle with vocab, but I got to trust in Anki and the passage of time hehe, soon I will be even more confident.

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Thank you for taking the time to reply in detail! I’ll reply in kind since you clearly put a lot of though into this.

I think this is inevitable for beginners since the concept is new and needs to be explained. Quite simple ideas in English grammar also take a lot of explaining to Japanese students. You’ll notice that N1 level material tends to have short explanations compared with N5. I actually think Bunpro does a pretty good job keeping the N5 stuff brief, especially considering the lessons can function atomically in most cases (without reference to other lessons).

The noun/noun phrase doesn’t tell us anything about the particle. We call them case markers (the ones you are discussing, at least) as they tell us the case of the noun phrase. I.e., they tell us what grammatical relationship the noun phrase has to the verb.

This is called 文節, if you are interested in researching it further.

Definitely an interesting idea although I am not sure I am personally convinced. I don’t know German but I believe you conjugate and/or have declensions for case. Imagine I argued that the conjugations/declensions show “objectness” etc and the word stem somehow describes this “objectness”. Hopefully that analogy works and apologies if it doesn’t. Essentially, I can’t see an intuitive reason to see why this idea would be true although it certainly is thought provoking. Also, it is worth considering that case marking particles are commonly dropped during speech. The grammatical role is apparent from context/word order and the particle is not essential to forming a correct or understandable sentence. This is without touching on the flexible use of particles (が・を with ~たい etc) where it is arguable what grammatical role is being played by the noun in question.

This analogy could also be applied to, for example, English word order. E.g., The subject comes onto stage first, then the subject starts to act out what they will do and then finally we are told what the object of the subject’s action is, etc. I think this perhaps is an interesting analogy to help understand how sentences function grammatically although I am not sure this gets at anything deeper about the structure of Japanese. Perhaps you are hinting at something about topic prominence with the stage idea?

I think this is just a technique given to foreign learners at the beginner stage to help breakdown a sentence. I don’t think there is inherently anything backwards, personally. Although perhaps I am missing the point you are making here.

Case marking particles are postpositional (come after a noun phrase) but this is arbitrary, I think. I don’t think there is any deeper psychological point here. Japanese sentences could still function grammatically exactly the same even if case marking particles were prepositional (came before the noun phrase that they mark). As such, I am not sure any deeper conclusion can be drawn. I have also never heard natives talk about things in this way (although that doesn’t mean too much in itself). Still, that doesn’t mean it isn’t an interesting idea or that there isn’t something more to consider here. I need to go away and properly reflect on it.


I think you have a very inquisitive mind and are interested in grammar and should definitely keep that interest as you progress! It was interesting to read your thoughts. I think you indirectly bring up some good points about Bunpro not discussing the idea of topic prominence or the larger world of sentence structure and case marking particles. I am not sure I am convinced by some of your analysis but if it helps you understand sentences then it can’t be a bad thing. I wonder if or how you will change your thinking as you go on studying.

Thank you for the detailed answer!

(Also, @nazareno , sorry for derailing your thread here! Congratulations!)

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Congrats! This is super impressive! Good Luck with N4 (whatever level you decide to go for) in July!
It took me two years to go through all the grammar points haha lol.

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Thanks for going into this so thoroughly, however I think you misunderstood my point here. I have already gone through N1 grammar and the idea I proposed is by no means used by beginners. You also somewhat misinterpreted my examples and metaphors (Which is partly my fault, because my explanation didnt suffice to get you on the same train of thought). The way I understand japanese grammar seems to work great for me personally, but It requires a certain headspace regarding language which, considering I am german, might have something to do with how I personally understand/apply language in general. But fully explaining my more german-oriented-approach to language in full would be incredibly exhausting and probably too long lol.

Aaanyways I apologize, because the entire point I was making is at the end of the day, entirely subjective and not really directed at your original question.
If I understand your account correctly, you have been studying Japanese for a long long time, but still, If you want some fresh and unconventional (but in my experience more understandable and useful) approach to japanese, I was originally trying to propose something like (to name a few):
An explanation of the hidden usage of0が; why assigning SOV/SVO/etc to japanese is useless; why calling some verbs transitive/intransitive is inherently misleading; why conjugation doesnt actually exist in japanese (at least not how we are used to it); why passive should never be called passive; the grammatical implication of え; What the three structural-“engines” are; and why translating particles to english is not worth it. Also, I have heard the い-stem be called ます-stem/form here sometimes, which is confusing.

Anyhow, even though I made these ideas sound very radical, Im not trying to brew a discussion on the ‘correct way to learn japanese’, I just want to propose outlines of fresh ideas that helped me, as a german native, because thats how the way of teaching evolves.
If you want me to elaborate on any of these roughly-typed points in particular, I can do that and go further into what I mean by it.

Congratulations, now you can enjoy watching the ever refreshing pile of daily grammar reviews reduce day by day. By far the most satisfying part of finishing bunpro, less study more immersion.

I changed one thing after I finished the grammar decks, and that was how far they drop when I fail them. I upped that a bit so I can throw myself a little “I need more work on this grammar point” whenever I feel like it. Would’ve done it earlier, but didn’t want to drown in reviews.

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How did you change the drop level? I don’t see that setting, and that definitely sounds like something I’d want to do in a couple months once I finish N1

under review settings as srs strictness

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Ah okay I’m not sure if that’s in the app yet. I’ll check the website :sweat_smile:

That’s probably my fault so no worries!

Based on what you’re saying here I believe you’re a fan of Cure Dolly? I’m familiar with her work already although admittedly it’s been a while. I know it helps things click for a lot of people, especially her metaphors and emphasis on the keeping track of the subject.

This is the only thing you’ve written where I am not quite sure what you are referring to. If it isn’t too much bother, do you mind explaining roughly what you mean here?