くは - Grammar Discussion

[Jake]

Emphasis and Contrast

Structure:
［い］Adjective［く］+ は
［い］Adjective［く］+ は + ない
［い］Adjective［く］+ は + ある

View on Bunpro

[cafelatte]

@The111 to answer your question, i think something like the first line can appear in casual speech, where the nai/aru can be elided as an implication

for example;
天気大変だね、暑くは
but it wouldnt be natural in writing, and isnt grammatical in and of itself, so I think you’re right that it shouldn’t be included as part of the grammar point. It’s not a grammar pattern so much as trailing off.

[The111]

For those who are lost, cafelatte is responding to a comment I put in a different thread which is now closed. The Q was:

@The111

I mentioned only two days ago a recurring pattern where the conjugation patterns given in the “structure” part of lesson aren’t always exercised in the examples. This new lesson gives 3 examples:

The first one is admittedly contained in the latter two, but I’m confused what that first one represents by itself, since zero of the examples contain it (i.e. くは not followed by ない or ある). Do such cases exist?

Re: your answer

@cafelatte

for example;
天気大変だね、暑くは
but it wouldnt be natural in writing, and isnt grammatical in and of itself, so I think you’re right that it shouldn’t be included as part of the grammar point. It’s not a grammar pattern so much as trailing off.

I asked the LLM, as I’m prone to do, and she told me that it can be used in a normal adverbial sense, e.g.

早くは来られない
translated as: “I can’t come particularly early” (the extra emphasis coming from the は)

This kind of makes sense and isn’t too surprising. But it’s also not clear from the lesson, and neither of us guessed it on our own. Which I think is further evidence that the pattern presented is not adequately explained in the lesson and examples that follow.

[JamesBunpro]

@The111

it’s also not clear from the lesson, and neither of us guessed it on our own. Which I think is further evidence that the pattern presented is not adequately explained in the lesson and examples that follow

As we have this placed at N4 it is simplified a little, aiming to just get the main idea across and focus on the most intuitive/common use of the pattern.

We do keep an eye on feedback like this though, so will keep it in mind when we come round to doing quality checks and edits. For the moment we will leave it as is so that it has a little more time to breathe and receive feedback. I think the point you’ve raised is worth considering though.

@The111

the conjugation patterns given in the “structure” part of lesson aren’t always exercised in the examples

The causes for this are mixed. Sometimes it may be an oversight (any feedback or reports of such cases are very welcome ). Sometimes it is because the main use of the grammar point is limited to certain phrases or types of words but it is still technically possible with others (like with くは here).

We do plan on tidying up the structure sections and making their information/presentation more consistent, although this is on the back burner at the moment. As such, we’re also grateful for opinions and feedback on this as well.