いたす - Grammar Discussion

@golmschenk Hi! Both 拝借ても and 拝借いたしても are acceptable answers here. Since 拝借 is already a humble enough expression it does not necessarily need いたす after it and can use the less humble する. I hope this helps. Cheers!

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In one of the examples, it points out the lack of ご being used as an honorific prefix and says it is an exception that needs to be memorized. I also noticed this in another example, where ご出発 was not accepted because it means the customer is departing instead of the company’s train. These link here, and tell you to read it for an explanation of the exceptions, but the linked post doesn’t seem to mention anything about it.

What is the main difference between this and お+stem+する, as learned in lesson 9 of N4?

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Came here to ask a similar question to @DarkConfidant .

I saw 募集する and the prompt was “humble / polite” so I tried お募集します. It was incorrect and I was given 募集いたします as the right answer.

Moments before I had the opposite happen with 電話する.

How do you know when する will go one way and when it will go the other?

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I have the same question as @DarkConfidant and @rwmleach, I keep getting answers wrong as sometimes お+stem+する is the answer and othertimes いたす。

Is there a trick to this that we’re missing?

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The difference is explained in a comment in this thread by @mrnoone; it’s also linked at the top of this thread. Is there anything else that’s unclear?

Regarding 募集 specifically, note that the example sentence with 募集 has an orange note that this is one of the exceptions where ご (not お) is not used.

The explanation in that thread makes sense for the examples given, because there is context of office hierarchy and who is involved in the conversation.

But here are example sentences from the grammar points in Bunpro:

“I will wait in front of the station. [humble]”
“We will send the merchandise tomorrow. [humble]”

“I (will) humbly close the door.”
“I humbly borrowed a computer from my friend’s mother.”

The first two are いたします, the last two are お〜する. Without any context other than this prompt, I don’t see the difference.

The link you gave says お〜する “has the nuance that you show respect to the person you are talking about”. But if “I” will close the door or borrow a computer, aren’t I talking about myself?

So I guess really what @DarkConfidant, @Senaki and I are probably missing is something in the prompt like “you are talking to your boss” or “you are talking about your boss”.

Unless you can clarify how you can tell which form goes with “I will wait in front of the station” and which goes with “I will close the door” just with that alone?

I tried these questions with cram. The する ones seem to accept いたします as correct with no further comment. The いたす ones don’t accept します but the answer isn’t marked incorrect; I was only asked to make it even more polite (which is an obvious hint that I should use いたします).

In other words, simply choosing the wrong option will mostly not result in being marked wrong. But these things can:

  • Choosing the wrong honorific prefix (お vs ご)
  • Applying a prefix when it’s not used with the word in question (e.g. with words that are already humble enough like 拝見 etc. or 失礼)
  • Applying a prefix when it can’t be used because the action doesn’t involve the person being shown humility (e.g. ご勉強 is wrong because studying doesn’t involve anyone else, while 勉強いたします is possible with いたす as a humble form of する)
  • Not applying a prefix with いたす when it’s not simply replacing the verb する.

For some reason, the いたす questions only seem to produce an orange warning for wrong prefix + いたす. In a way it makes sense because they’re saying “at least you remembered いたす,” but I think it’s also logical that believing an honorific prefix to be appropriate would lead to attempting to answer with する, so it’s kind of the same mistake…

I agree that sentences like these are difficult to interpret without context. “I’ll close the door” is such a basic thing that I wouldn’t even consider using a humble form or even a polite one by default if bunpro wasn’t explicitly asking for one - there isn’t even enough context for that. In these sentences, お+stem+いたす is more or less really just a more polite way to say the same thing as お+stem+する. (Again though, this sentence does actually seem to accept both options…)

I don’t really see a problem with being prompted for a more humble answer by the いたす sentences. It’s not the only grammar point where bunpro does something like this because many things can be said in multiple, equally correct ways. But it would be nice if more sentences where like the one about sending the merchandise, since that one is clearly in a business context where we’re talking to the customer, which is a pretty good hint that we should use いたす if we can.

(Note though that there is an out-of-band hint: The いたす questions want a “[humble]” statement, while the お+stem+する ones want to do things “humbly”.)

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まだその映画を はいけんしていない ので、一緒に見に行きませんか。 [Humble 見る (拝見する)]

Where in this answer is the いたす? I have the feeling this sentence should be part of the お~する grammarpoint istead of いたす :confused: What am i mussing?

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You’re missing the note concerning expressions with 拝 near the bottom of the notes. 拝見する is already humble by itself and comparable in that regard to other verbs + いたす.

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I came here to look this up too, because I was also confused by this. Thanks for the nudge, @nekoyama!

To cite that note here:

Expressions that have 「拝」(like 拝見、拝借) don’t take the prefix ご/お since 拝 already performs a similar function. In other words, they are respectful enough already

For me, this does not say “also use する for them”, maybe that can be improved upon?

I am confused about the last example “拝借はいしゃくしてもよろしいですか。”. Not only does it not use いたす, it also doesn’t use お〜する (I tried putting お at the beginning and it wasn’t accepted).

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拝借 is already 謙譲語, there is a note about this in the front of the grammar point entry:

[Expressions that have 「拝」(like 拝見、拝借) don’t take the prefix ご/お since 拝 already performs a similar function. In other words, they are respectful enough already]

I believe you can use いたす with 拝借, but itasu sounds weird in this context with conjugation te-mo, feels like humble よろしい and 拝借 is already being stated here, whether wrong or not I don’t know.

I’m thinking any equivalent term that isn’t an example of the grammar point shouldn’t be included under it. I’ve mentioned before that I believe related, but not direct examples of the grammar point defeat the purpose of spaced repetition by not actually reminding you of what you’re trying to remember. If there are a select few humble equivalents for other words, they should have their own points or otherwise not be included at all. This isn’t a word-learning platform, after all.

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For

まだその映画えいが拝見はいけんしていないので、一緒いっしょきませんか。

My first thought was 拝見していません or 拝見いたしていません but those were rejected. Is there a reason いない plain negative is required? Is it because of ので?

I got this sentence today:

やるのあるかたを、店員てんいんとしてぼしゅういたします

Would 募集します be acceptable here, or does it have to be a variant of 募集いたします?

@tomwamt I’m curious about that as well!

I’m having trouble understanding an example sentence in this grammar point.

はいしゃくしてもよろしいですか。[Humble りる (拝借はいしゃくする)]
[Even if I borrow…] May I borrow it?

Does いたす imply to ask permission like the word -may- does or is it something else in the sentence?
I’ve never seen よろしい before so I only have the dictionary look up for that part but I don’t think I actually get what it means.

Or I guess why is -may- being used? Why isn’t the sentence just a polite way of saying I’m borrowing something?
Please help and explain like I’m 5 years old

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I too could use some ELI5ing on this:

拝借してもよろしいですか。

This confuses me. How am I supposed to know I need to put the も here together with the Te form? The grammar point doesn’t even mention して?

Same here, why do we suddenly use していない here?

まだその映画を拝見していないので、一緒に見に行きませんか。

I get the “humble enough that する will do part but why is the first answer しても and the second していない? Have I totally missed a grammar point somewhere?

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you’re not alone, same here. the grammar page gives absolutely 0 reason why I should expect いたす to suddenly conjugate to して-whatever. on the contrary, the page seems to imply I’m supposed to be adding kana いた to make things more polite, but then they just … vanish in the SRS sentences?

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いたす and する are two different verbs, not conjugations of each other and we’re not just adding random kana somewhere. In the grammar point, there is a red “caution” box that says that words that use the kanji 拝 do not use いたす because they’re humble by default. That’s why for some of these sentences we don’t use いたす even though this is the いたす grammar point; we have to learn when we can’t use it, too.

拝借してもよろしいですか is almost covered in the てもいい grammar point and its twin sibling, the verb-てもいい grammar point. よろしい is a more formal alternative to いい, but otherwise this is just a basic structure that’s often used for asking permission.

拝見していない is covered in the ている (state of being) grammar point. Just a humble version of 見ていない for “have not seen”.

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