Verb[ た ] + 上で
Noun + の上で/上で
Verb[ た ] + 上で
Noun + の上で/上で
The Meaning card is missing the information that this is more formal than atode, which is only presented by an example.
Added information about formality
I’m a little confused on this grammar point, I came here through the tobira path (chapter 11), and yet this grammar point seems to have a different meaning to what’s presented in Tobira.
Bunpro has it meaning something like ‘upon; after’ but Tobira has the meaning as something like ‘In terms of; from the viewpoint of ~’
上で (うえで) is upon/after
上 (じょう) as a suffix is from the standpoint of…
In that case I think the tobira path has mixed up those points, as the one covered in chapter 11 is 上 (じょう), yet bunpro links to 上で (うえで)
though the strange thing is, in chapter 11 of tobira, it has both ‘Noun+上 (じょう)’, and ‘Nounの上で (うえで)’ listed as the same grammar point, though both are given the same english tranlsation of ‘in terms of’, ‘from the standpoint of’
This grammar point is about preparatory actions. So this does sound like a mixup unless Tobira also has the other usage in the same chapter. Note that most of the examples aren’t even with nouns.
I thought it might have been a context thing because in A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar, there is a note that the noun in Nの上で with the preparatory action meaning is usually a noun that describes investigation, discussion, etc. Like the few noun examples in this grammar point, basically.
However, the “from the standpoint” meaning is listed separately as Nの上では and they specifically make a point that it’s not the same as Nの上で…
What is the difference between 上で and あとで?
I would say あとで is used un everyday language but you will only see 上で in more formal situations. I wouldn’t say あとで would necessarily be wrong to use in a more formal situation though, so if in doubt, I would personally use あとで.
Looks like the Nihongoの森 link is broken but sadly I can’t find a re-upload.
@Ambo100 Thank you for letting me know! I have uploaded a new video. Cheers!
I agree, I think this is a mixup in the Tobira path, and Chapter 11 should use 上 (from the standpoint of) instead.
Edit: sorry matt_in_mito, I replied to the wrong post ^^’ I meant [MysticChameleon]'s (上で うえで - Grammar Discussion - #4 by MysticChameleon)
thanks, I came here to make this point
I think the grammar should add a note “this is for things not yet done”, rather than simply saying the order things happen in
In 家の中を見た上で、買おうと思っている。(“I am thinking that I will buy the house after I have seen the inside.”), is it clear whether or not the speaker has already seen the house?
It’s clear that they haven’t seen it, because 上で is used to express that something will happen after the fact.
What I see more often in the wild is 上で in the context of “according to …,” like this example sentence from A Handbook of Japanese Grammar Patterns:
“It is still cold, even though it is already spring according to the calendar.”
I was going to add that as a self-study sentence but I thought I should ask first: should the “according to …” meaning be the same grammar point? Should that be a different grammar point (I searched and didn’t see that Bunpro had it (yet))?
暦の上では is a special expression used only when talking about how the current weather is unusual for the current season, like the example you have provided. This use of 上 in this expression is closer to this grammar point.
Hope that clears it up!
Thank you! I seriously just saw that that very grammar point was in my next lesson literally seconds ago and I was like, “D’oh!”