上で うえで - Grammar Discussion

Grammar Points
#1

after, upon

Structure
Verb[ た ] + 上で
Noun + の上で/上で

View on Bunpro

#2

The Meaning card is missing the information that this is more formal than atode, which is only presented by an example.

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#3

Added information about formality :smiley:

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#4

I’m a little confused on this grammar point, I came here through the tobira path (chapter 11), and yet this grammar point seems to have a different meaning to what’s presented in Tobira.
Bunpro has it meaning something like ‘upon; after’ but Tobira has the meaning as something like ‘In terms of; from the viewpoint of ~’

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#5

上で (うえで) is upon/after

上 (じょう) as a suffix is from the standpoint of…

bunpro has that one too

#6

In that case I think the tobira path has mixed up those points, as the one covered in chapter 11 is 上 (じょう), yet bunpro links to 上で (うえで)
Edit:
though the strange thing is, in chapter 11 of tobira, it has both ‘Noun+上 (じょう)’, and ‘Nounの上で (うえで)’ listed as the same grammar point, though both are given the same english tranlsation of ‘in terms of’, ‘from the standpoint of’

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#7

This grammar point is about preparatory actions. So this does sound like a mixup unless Tobira also has the other usage in the same chapter. Note that most of the examples aren’t even with nouns.

I thought it might have been a context thing because in A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar, there is a note that the noun in Nの上で with the preparatory action meaning is usually a noun that describes investigation, discussion, etc. Like the few noun examples in this grammar point, basically.

However, the “from the standpoint” meaning is listed separately as Nの上では and they specifically make a point that it’s not the same as Nの上で…

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#8

What is the difference between 上で and あとで?

#9

I would say あとで is used un everyday language but you will only see 上で in more formal situations. I wouldn’t say あとで would necessarily be wrong to use in a more formal situation though, so if in doubt, I would personally use あとで.

#10

Looks like the Nihongoの森 link is broken but sadly I can’t find a re-upload.

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#11

@Ambo100 Thank you for letting me know! I have uploaded a new video. Cheers!

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#12

I agree, I think this is a mixup in the Tobira path, and Chapter 11 should use 上 (from the standpoint of) instead.

Edit: sorry matt_in_mito, I replied to the wrong post ^^’ I meant [MysticChameleon]'s (上で うえで - Grammar Discussion - #4 by MysticChameleon)

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#13

thanks, I came here to make this point

I think the grammar should add a note “this is for things not yet done”, rather than simply saying the order things happen in