すぎる - Grammar Discussion

Grammar Points
#33

I’m a bit confused by the following example sentences:

この寿司（すし）は美味（おい）し すぎる 。
This sushi is too delicious.

その絵（え）は綺麗（きれい） すぎる。
That picture is very beautiful.

According to Genki, 過ぎる usually isn’t used in a complimentary way:

“You use 過ぎる when something is beyond normal or proper, suggesting that you do not welcome it. Thus 親切すぎる (too kind) for example it not a straightforward compliment.”

I’ve counterchecked it with Tae Kim’s and A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar and couldn’t find an example like the two sentences above.

I guess, the complimentary usage is more casually/slangy (?).

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#34

I came here to ask the same as @febLey, having just read the same in Genki.

I also assume it’s casual/slang, but could anyone with more experience weigh in?

#35

I still cant seem to grasp what the difference is between verbs in negative form using すぎる:
I see both forms in different places, including here between the description and example sentances:
(verb)なさすぎる or
(verb stem)すぎない

is the first: “too much not”, i.e not enough
is the second: “dont too much” i.e dont do too much of that (verb)

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#36

why use negative form when you can just use すぎない at the end?

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#37

I believe this would change the meaning. For instance, I think 重くなさすぎる would be like “too much not heavy,” which would imply an object is not heavy or even lightweight since it surpasses at being not heavy. However, 重すぎない would be more akin to “not too heavy,” which would mean that the object is still heavy, but just not too heavy to do some action with, such as carrying it.

This is just my take on it though, so I’m not 100% sure.

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#38

@Ardeact @nickyelkovan

There is a difference(I will use 食べる as an example):

食べ過ぎない
is used in negative questions or when telling someone to not eat too much, mostly as:
食べすぎない？ (aren’t you (X) eating too much?)
食べすぎないようにする (try ones best to not eat too much)(try ones best not to overeat)
食べすぎないように (so that one won’t eat too much)

On the other hand, 食べなさすぎる means that someone barely eats something, eats too little, does not eat very much.

I hope it helps,
Cheers!

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#39

Is it grammatically correct for すぎる to follow a noun?

For example, there is an example sentence:
アイスクリームを食べすぎたからお腹が痛い。

Could you instead say this as:
アイスクリームすぎるのを食べたからお腹が痛い。

The meaning section only mentions verb, い, な, but since な adjectives are technically nouns I’d assume they work pretty much the same here.

#40

I thought your second one was strange but I checked with someone in the office just now just to be safe.
No, すぎる can’t follow a noun, but it can follow an adjective, so you can say something like 脂っこすぎるものを食べたからお腹が痛い (I ate something that was too greasy so I have a stomachache. (脂っこい is the adjective in the sentence).

When I said アイスクリームすぎる people in the office laughed :joy:

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#41

Well I’m glad I was able to bring some amusement into this dreary world lol. Thanks for the answer!

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#42

In this example:

アイスクリームを食たべすぎたからお腹なかが痛いたい

I noticed that 食たべすぎる is in the past tense. I thought that usually the last word in the sentence has the tense (in this example いたい) while the rest of the sentence would remain in non-past tense. Was I wrong in thinking this?

#43

You’re kinda right, but in this case it’s the last word in the clause that carries the tense. Think of it as “Phrase A, Phrase B”…
アイスクリームを食べすぎたから、お腹が痛い。

アイスクリームを 食べすぎた から、-- Because I ate too much ice cream, (past tense)
お腹が 痛い。-- My stomach hurts. (present tense)

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#44

Thanks for the explanation.

Is this same さ the one we use when nominalizing adjectives? 高い (long) → 高さ (length)

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#45

No, it’s not. I think you’re looking in too close to it, its a bit like thinking there’s a pattern between ‘though’ and ‘enough’ because they both end in -ough.

気にしないで！

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#46

Hi I am having difficulties with the double negative.

In Dutch, English and French they sound unnatural to me. but maybe it is more common in Japanese. I don’t know.

  • 彼かれはトイレに行いかなさすぎない。

He doesn’t not go to the toilet enough. (A double negative that becomes positive)

So first a literal translation from the Japanese into English. But than than that is followed by explanation (a double negative that becomes positive).
thus the English Translation would be
He does go to the toilet enough (since it becomes positive following the explanation)

Now more logically I would think that it means
He doesn’t go to the bathroom too often
or
He doesn’t go to the bathroom enough.

Thus there is no double negative that becomes positive in the actual translation.

If it means that . Than I am confused in why you would use a double negative in this example.
Maybe a doctor said he probably doesn’t go to the toilet enough. In which the reply can be the opposite. He does go enough and the double negative but that really sounds unnatural to me

It’s like saying I don’t want no toppings on my pizza.
Meaning you want toppings on your pizza.

Maybe in Japanese double negatives are more common but In English , Dutch and French they all sound really unnatural to me.

And I am not being not serious about this question.

edit:2022-12-18T23:00:00Z
So I looked it up in the three languages and a double negative in all these languages is ungrammatical. Much worse than unnatural sounding as I said earlier.

It’s grammatical in Japanese the sentences with て＋は＋いけない ならない。 come to mind.
Anyway my point probably is that the translation to a double negative in English, should be corrected (maybe in a second step) to what the correct English translation should be.
It confuses me a lot about the actual meaning if there is no correct translation.
I don’t mind the literal translation, it should also have a correct one.

So please could you give me a correct translation of the sentence.
*** 彼かれはトイレに行いかなさすぎない。**

He doesn’t not go to the toilet enough. (A double negative that becomes positive)

is it
He doesn’t go to the toilet enough?

Thanks

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#47

Okay, I’m just making sure I understand the negative-usage of すぎる:

  • 寝た。- I slept.
  • 寝なかった。- I did not sleep.
  • 寝すぎた。- I slept too much.

I’m not sure if I’m reading my own examples correctly:

  • 寝なさすぎた。- I did not sleep too much.

  • 寝なさすぎなかった。- I did not not sleep too much. (double negative, right?)

  • 寝すぎない下さい。 - Please don’t sleep too much.

I also wasn’t sure if some of these examples could be written differently, as in:

  • 寝すぎなかった。(I did not sleep too much.)
  • 寝なさすぎ下さい。 (Please don’t sleep too much.)

Would these above examples work, or did I miss anything?

#48

I’m also not sure, because the English translation is ambiguous. But the Japanese means “did too much not-sleeping” = “I slept too little”.

Whereas

means “I didn’t do too much sleeping” = “I did not oversleep”.

There also are some issues with how you’re using ください.

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#49

Ahh gotcha, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for the reply.

I kinda threw those 下さい examples in at the last moment since the one review example stumped me for a bit (お菓子を食べすぎないでください。). I didn’t realize the specific example also contains a footnote that clarified some of my confusions.

#50

I thoroughly enjoy your explanations in this thread (and in general), I went here to ask questions about this なさ construct and they’re already all answered!

Beyond そう and すぎる, are there other grammatical constructions that change the negative ない to なさ? I keep forgetting this little irregularity and I’m trying to see if I can come up with some underlying logic for it, even though there doesn’t appear to be any…

That 冗談は面白くなさすぎた example sentence is tricky, but it’s very useful to drill this point.

Honestly I almost wish that the negative form (and that of そう) was given a dedicated entry just so that you could review this なさ irregularity on its own.

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#51

Wow Im just realizising today this has a negative form. I think it deserves its own page to be honest, it can get pretty complex.

大きくないすぎる。- Not big enough?
大きすぎない。- Not too big?

#52

Hello, I’m a bit confused about this example sentence:
今日の授業は長すぎました。
(Today’s class was too long.)

Since it asks for the polite version + い-adjective, I’d expect the answer to be “ながくすぎました” (which is obviously wrong since I can’t change my typed kana なが into 長).

But according to the description for polite + い-adjective, the last い gets replaced with a く:
grafik
But that’s not what’s happening in the example.

Unfortunately, this is the only example sentence with the combination of polite + い-adjective for comparisons.

Can someone help me to understand what I’m missing here? :pray:

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