そうすると - Grammar Discussion

English translation:
(and/just) then, thereupon, if so

Structure:
Phrase1. そうすると + Result.

Explanation:
A.そうするとB. B describes something over which speaker/writer has no control and usually takes place short after A.Also used when drawing a reasonable conclusion B, based on situation A. It can be abbreviated to すると

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The grammar page mentions that そうすると can be shortened to すると; is the latter more informal, or is there no change in formality?

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Hey :grin:

そうすると is more polite than すると since it is a contraction.
But both are used in formal writing, and I would say that it すると is used more often.

Cheers!

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素直すなお正直しょうじききるようにして。そうするとまわりにひとあつまってくるよ。

Can someone please help me with the first part of this? Apparently 素直 can mean honest, so I have two questions. Firstly, how does the で particle turn this into a seemingly adverbial use? And second, I know that 正直に means “honestly”, so what is 素直で actually adding to this?

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I’d translate that as “open, frank, and honest”. Like English, they’re similar but different words.
素直 - I understood this as “open” or “not hidden”
正直 - I understood this as “not lying”

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So you’d interpret it as “openly and honestly”, then? If I remember rightly, it only said “honestly” in the given translation, which was what threw me.

Also, I’m now thinking the で is just a conjuntion, since I’ve not seen anything like「素直にで正直に」so I assume that’s not grammatical, or at least not in common usage.

Maybe to be more exact, it’s using this pattern:
Nounで Adverbに
素直で 正直に
with openness, honestly

It might be worth asking for an update to the sentence translation.

I think it IS a bit weird when you go about that sentence that way, but, try to look at it from this angle:

If we group the sentence’s meaning like this:
[素直で正直に][生きるようにして。]
It certainly feels very weird.

But, what’s actually happening is:
[素直で][正直に生きるように][して。]
(Frankly… / Honestly… / Please…) (So that you lead an honest life) (Do it)

By putting it all together, we get the final translation:
“Please, try to live honestly.”

And, to give a more concise answer for this, で is just a conjunctive here. It’s connecting the sentence rather than turning into an adverb, while 正直に is adjectivizing 生きる.

素直 has more of a “what I’m really thinking deep down” honesty nuance, while 正直 expresses more of a “right way/upstanding way of doing things” honesty nuance. So the “Please” at the beginning of the sentence has a “I’m begging you!” feeling to it.

Hope this helps, even if late!

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Thanks - so the で here isn’t that they’re also asking them to be 素直, but it’s more like an instrumental marker, like “With sincerity (from me), try to live honestly”, is that right?

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It’s the same basic particle meaning, so yeah! :partying_face:

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