まま - Grammar Discussion

English translation:
as is
while remaining
left in a state

Structure:
Verb[ ] + まま
Verb[ ない ] + まま
いAdj + まま
Noun・の + まま
なAdj・な + まま

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There’s a bunch of related grammar that shows up in conversation that combines まま with other particles words, any plans of these to be added in future?

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Hey :star_struck:

We plan to include those too :+1:

In a review for this grammar point I got the sentence, コートをきたままだと少し暑いです。(I feel a little hot keeping this jacket on.)

What is the role of だと there? Is it a と conditional, making a literal translation closer to “If I keep this coat on, I will feel a little hot”?

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@Eironeous That is exactly right! Do you think a more literal translation would better suit this sentence to prevent any further confusion? Cheers!

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I personally don’t feel like it’s necessary, especially if the current translation carries over the intended meaning better. The literal translation in English makes the intended meaning sound a little more like a たら conditional, doesn’t it? What tripped me up was actually not seeing a まま + だと combination before, and the three grammar sources I used (Tae Kim, Maggie’s explanation and even Dictionary of Japanese Grammar) did not give a まま + だと example. And of course, since asking this question I’ve seen it pop up elsewhere, too.

If I voted for any change, it’d be to maybe add a note regarding what it is commonly combined with, such as で, に and だと. As in, add it as a comment in orange letters below, where it currently says [The state of something remains unchanged]. Again though, I didn’t think it too confusing, and when studying grammar such questions are inevitable anyway.

Thanks for the response!

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I always confuse this with てある :sweat:
do we use まま when there is already a sentence ending verb or are there more differences?

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One basic difference I can think of is that while both てある and まま mean that something was left in that state, the “something that must be left alone/undisturbed” nuance is unique to まま.

てある is just stating the fact.

Hope this helps!

Isn’t it a bit strange that in thise case, the に is rejected ? Also could be maybe just a suggestion to remove it ?

I mean, in the explanation it is said :

While まま may be followed by the case marking particle に, it is very often omitted. When it appears, however, it will place extra emphasis on the next verb in the sentence.

So it feels to me as something that could be acceptable

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I would hazard a guess that このまま (このまま – Vocabulary details – jpdb ) is just an expression that is never followed by に. At least an online search for “このままに” gives very few results.

Hey, i appreciate everything bunpro is doing however i have a suggestion and question. For future grammar points or maybe revising them to, please, please include in the fun fact section if something is added to the grammar point that’s not covered. Example is まま i see it as Verb たまま and that’s great but then some examples include the ままにする and its variants that are no explanation about what this にする is doing here, yes ik it means to make" but for example we have a example that’s good and s covered by the Page: 夕食を食べないまま寝たら、お腹が空いて3時ぐらいに起きてしまった。(Because I slept without eating dinner, I woke up around 3 am from hunger.) then we have one where にする is mentioned with no explanation about what it does here like could be “hey normally this means to make x or this is the to make x usage and here it means…” but there’s nothing which makes it frustrating. an example: 扇風機を点けたままにして家を出る。 and 扇風機を点けたまま家を出る。Both mean i leave my house with my fan turned on. What’s the difference what exactly is the にする usage here?? And yes i have looked at only resources unable to find ANY explanation regarding this, its also in the っぱなし grammar point. So, could you please describe the difference and what exactly it’s doing and maybe add it in the note section somewhere as well, Thanks. Sidenote: with する i also mean with the variants of にする i mean にした、にしておく、にしてください。 maybe once i understand what the にする is doing here i could piece it all together, Thanks!

Note: one more in addition: 部屋を汚いままにしていたらゴキブリが沢山出てきた。 What’s it doing here too, if you wouldn’t mind. Thanks!