ないといけない - Grammar Discussion

[Pushindawood]

must
have to

Structure

• Verb[ ない ] + と + いけない / だめ
• Verb[ ない ] + と …

ないとならない is generally not used and is best avoided

[ないと(いけない) is used to express some duty, a necessity, or the responsibility of a speaker or other people due to law, customs, common sense, etc.]

[と originates from と (if, when), but it doesn’t have its restrictions]

[だめ is more casual than いけない. Both だめ and いけない can be omitted in casual language. ないと(いけない) is quite common as it is easier to produce/pronounce since you simply attach と to the negative short form and the rest (いけない・だめ) is implied]

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[darkness_rising]

In this example,

「なぜ、税金を はらわないといけない のですか？」

Is the reason that いけない must be included and it can’t just be はらわないと because the のです implies that the sentence is being spoken formally/without abbreviation?

[matt_in_mito]

I think you’re half right, by which I mean it is because the のですか is there, but It’s not because it’s a formal sentence. It’s because the abbreviated form はらわないと finishes a sentence and doesn’t connect to anything else. It does definitely have a more casual nuance, but even if you add it onto a casual sentence ending particle (for example なぜ、税金をはらわないとの？) it still wouldn’t be natural since the sentence doesn’t end on と.

[darkness_rising]

Oh, ok! Thank you!

[Pep95]

Found a weird error when hovering over the grammar point text

[Pushindawood]

@Pep95 Nice spot! Thank you for drawing this to our attention so that we could get it fixed. Cheers!

[FredKore]

Is this hint supposed to say “long form of the verb”? (otherwise, I don’t understand what “short form” means here)

[hergimerc]

Does this grammar point has the same meaning with 〜なくてはいけない/ならない?

[CrisH]

「日本にほんでは家いえへ上あがるとき、靴くつをぬがないといけません。」
I was wondering if there’s anything wrong with using べき in this case? I put it in but it didn’t say “Not that one”, or any of the usual hints for similar points.

[Daru]

@FredKore
Short form refers to all casual forms.

@hergimerc
Yes! The intensity/certainty varies between them, but the basic meaning is the same. Check out the recently added Writeups for more information!

@CrisH
It’s not that it’s wrong, it’s just that this specific Study Question wants you to review ないといけない.

Hope this helps, everyone!

[CrisH]

Hi Daru,

In that case, would it be possible to add that as one of the forms that throws up a hint rather than being marked wrong?

Thanks,
Cris

[Daru]

Not really, because it gives ないと a level of strength that is not seen in similar phrases like なければいけない, or なくてはいけない. Because of this, ないと is often used to highlight things which absolutely ‘must’ be done (obeying the law, adhering to customs, using common sense, etc.).

In other words, although it IS the same basic meaning of ‘this mustn’t be done’ , the tone here is so strong its important to clarify.

[CrisH]

So it’s the difference between ‘should’ (べき) and ‘must’ (ないと), then?

[FredKore]

Since the hint given in the [] is the verb する, I read “the short form of the verb” to mean “the short form of the verb する”, which it’s already in short form, so the blue text hint is still confusing. I’m guessing the blue text hint was originally written for another near miss answer. So, how do we distinguish between “short form” しないと and “short form” しないといけない？
How about: “short form, but not that short, but not as long as long form, but using two shorts that don’t make a long”

[Daru]

@FredKore

How about: “short form, but not that short, but not as long as long form, but using two shorts that don’t make a long”

Not all that short.

[Pixel_Vapour]

This is very confusing. Seems like an error

[IcyIceBear]

Was looking at alternate acceptable answers… I’ve never seen 〜ですのです before? Is it actually acceptable or is it not taking the rest of the sentence into account