さえ - Grammar Discussion

English translation:
even

Structure:
Noun + particle + でさえ/さえ
Verb + の/こと + さえ + (する)
Verb[stem] + さえ + (する)
Verb[て] + さえ + (いる)

Explanation:
[さえ is used to emphasize something very surprising, unsual. More than も and でも。Often used to express minimum expectation or in “not only but also” and "let alone"constructions.

View on Bunpro

Two questions:

  1. Why is について in orange?
  2. Would this sentence be grammatically correct if I used も and would it mean anything close to the sentence with さえ?

1 Like

1.It is in orange because it is (compound) particle.
2. Yes, it would be correct. “I also/even know about that thing.”
I have added it as alternative answe :+1:

By the way, まで can also be used there.

2 Likes

Any advice on what to do to distinguish the usage of さえ and まで(も)? I’ve been struggling to understand when the two are not interchangeable? Specifically, every time that まで(も) could be used, I think, “gee, why can’t I use さえ here?”

さえ puts greater emphasis. Think of it like how かもしれない and はずだ both express certainty, but to different degrees. Hope this helps!

1 Like

Maybe im being stupid here, but I dont understand how im supposed to figure out when で is needed and when it isnt needed after a noun. For example, 子供でさえ vs 価値さえ? I dont get why they are treated differently when theyre both nouns. Is it to do with the first being a living thing?

Thanks

1 Like

If you’re going to use さえ, then you have to use でさえ if it would have been appropriate to use でも. Basically, add the で if the phrase requires a copula.

子供でさえ = 子供でも = even if (he/she/it) is a child
(notice the copular “to be” statement creeping in there - that’s what the で is responsible for in this case).

2 Likes