たら〜で - Grammar Discussion

Grammar Points
#1

even if
if

Structure

  • Verb[ たら / ば ] + Verb[た] + で
  • い-Adj[ たら / ば ] + い-Adj[かった/い] + で
  • な-Adj + なら + な-Adj で

[A[たら/ば]A[た]で is used in situations where contrary to what one normally would expect from A, B is the case]

[For example, one might expect B to be a hassle, but in reality, it is not as bad as originally perceived]

[Conversely, one might expect B to be exciting but, in reality, is boring or difficult]

[Frequently used as a response to someone’s statement, often to express contrast with が, けど, and so on]

[In B, expressions like なとか、困る、大変、かまわない、and ものだ are common]

[Sometimes you can encounter (の)なら used with verbs and adjectives instead of たら/ば, but it is more common in other - A(の)なら/ばAでB patterns where one expresses that in situation A, B is appropriate, often in a patronizing way]

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#2

I don’t know if I fully understand the Japanese logic to this grammar point.
What is the で doing gramatically?

走ったら走ったで
run-if ran-??

Any help would be appreciated, thank you.

#3

The で marks a scope or topic for the following comment.

Since で is not often used in this way directly after a verb, maybe it helps to think of it as a shortcut that’s leaving out something before the で, such as ところ or 場合 or ということ. I’m not saying that that’s where this pattern comes from (I have no idea), but I think it’s similar.

Or in English:
Assuming that I run, in a situation where I ran, (…comment on what happens when I run).