まで(も) - Grammar Discussion

even・to even, to the extent

Structure

  • Noun + まで(も)

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I gotta ask a stupid question! Is that okay?

How do I know that it’s “even in the middle of the night”, rather than just a “until the middle of the night” in this first example sentence?

After all, N + まで can mean until, right?

Or is it simply a matter of emphasis? As in, it’s implied that we’re studying from some earlier point in time until the middle of the night, which is quite noteworthy?

So, in short: Other than context, is there some trick to distinguish the “until”-まで from the “even”-まで ?

EDIT: Guess I should have done more reading… it says here:

So I guess it sometimes just isn’t obvious.

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If you want to be more clear, you can simply use までも. :+1:

I have been wondering why も、さえ are not acceptable here:

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What is the difference between this and ほど for the meaning “to the extent”? Are they interchangeable?