を - Grammar Discussion

particle that marks the object of action

Structure

  • Object +

[object marker・particle]

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Hey!
If a grammar point has other function, we create another grammar point for it.
で you are speaking of is here:
https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/36
:+1:

@mrnoone I just got the following sentence:

image

I have two concerns.

  1. The first is a general concern about this grammar point and many of the basic grammar particle questions. During reviews you often show the orange hint that it’s a particle particle. However, by doing so you are no longer testing that the user knows how to use that particle. You are now only testing that they have memorized that “object marker” = を.
  2. For this particular sentence, is this even the object particle usage of を? Jisho lists 出る as intransitive (I can’t find a more definitive source), so is it possible that this usage is more like the “through” usage, like 公園を歩く?
  1. You are right, this is too much of a hint. I will change those to [choose proper particle.]

  1. Yes you are right. It is not a direct object use.
    The を in 出る is used to describe a starting point of the movement, similar to から.

It is used with verbs like 発つ(たつ)、出る(でる)、離れる(はなれる)etc.
But you focus only on that point of start, you don’t mention the goal of movement, you don’t know where(or don’t want to say it) or it is simply not important. This is the difference with から, which is used for the movement from A to B.
So, you cannot say 家庭に出る。But 家を出る is perfectly fine. Also 家から庭に出る is also proper.


公園を歩く
This を is different を to both starting を and direct object(accusative case) particles.

It is used to describe location of movement. Similar to で.
It focuses on the route when moving. Like movement through something.

It is used with verbs like 歩く、泳ぐ、渡る(わたる)


2 Likes

Thanks for the great explanation. Two questions then.

  1. Are you going to replace this sentence since this grammar point is about direct object version of を?
  2. Can you add to your “to do” list (for when you have time) to add grammar points for the point of departure and location of movement versions of を?

As a side question, what level are those two grammar points? N3?

1 Like

Ohh, I forgot to mention important fact about 出る:
When you use Aから Bに 出る. The destination has to be right outside of the starting point.


  1. For the time being I will leave it as it is to show that there are other uses of を.
    When を grammar points will be added for other uses I will swap it for normal sentence.

  2. Yes, I added those immediately after explaining it :+1:

2 Likes

I think here should also be at least one example sentence using します:

  • 私はサッカをします。
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I saw that there are also example sentences with を added there, however there is no explanation on the usage of them like: 学校 で 勉強 する -> Here it is not referring to an object, but rather a way of doing, if I interpret it right? This stands in comparison to 図書館 で 日本語勉強します。Where を is used to describe the object but not again for “study”. This can be a bit confusing for someone who has not seen this before and reads the examples carefully :wink:

I’m a bit confused on when を is necessary and when it is not. For example, during reviews for a different grammar point, I encountered the sentence 妹はパンだけ食べます。 However, based on my understanding of grammar in English, パン would be a direct object of 食べます. Is を optional in certain cases or would it be wrong to put を after パンだけ or is that example sentence incorrect?

Can someone clarify what an object is referring to? Because I keep getting を and は confused. The lesson guide thing says を is for an object, fair enough. 家 is an object so it gets を. Easy I get it 家を出ます。

But then 公園 isn’t considered an object and is given は?
公園は広い。
The lesson guide says は is for subject marker. So how do you know if it is an object or a subject marker? I just can’t figure out when to use which.

To me they just seem like they do the same thing so I don’t know when to use which. If someone could explain using simple terms I would appreciate it

I think you are fundamentally missing some information about the particles.

を is a case marking particle, a particle that is used to express a relationship between clauses.
「家を出ます。」 has 2 clauses. 「家を」 and 「出ます」. 「家を」 modifies 「出ます」by providing it an object. In this case we are providing the starting point of the action.

は is a binding particle, a particle that is used to add meaning to the word it attaches to and adds emphasis.
Depending on the context, 「公園は」 in 「公園は広い」 can either be adding the meaning that it is a park that we are talking about or it can be contrasting this park with something else (eg. saying that this park is more spacious than other parks).

In short を provides an object for a verb and は marks the topic that is being talked about.

Can someone clarify what an object is referring to?

The object is the target of a verb. For transitive verbs this is the direct object (りんご in りんごを食べる). For movement verbs this can be the starting point (家 in 家を出ます), or the place you are going through (近所 in 近所を歩く).

The lesson guide says は is for subject marker.

I think you must be confusing something because は is the topic marker, not the subject marker (which is が).

Edit: Adjusted the way I defined object to be more consistent.

1 Like

出る is intransitive, so 家を doesn’t provide a direct object like it would with a transitive verb, but instead indicates a location of movement.

While it might not be providing a direct object, the usage of を is viewed as being the same thing to at least some native speakers. A native speaker I asked said that what the verb was didn’t matter and that を did the same thing, marking the target of a verb. I have also seen someone else document this in an answer on the Japanese Language StackExchange. Someone did comment on that answer that a native they asked saw them as different.

Okay thank you I think I get it now, well maybe
And you don’t need to think I am missing fundamentals because I definitely am :slight_smile:
I am missing them so much that I don’t even know what is a fundamental in this language or not but that’s okay just keep swimming.
Thanks for spelling it out that one is for verbs and one isn’t. I can now continue to struggle through!