けど・だけど - Grammar Discussion

but

Structure

  • Verb + けど
  • いAdj + けど
  • Noun・ + けど
  • なAdj・ + けど

:warning: More casual than が

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I think there should be another けど point or maybe additional explanations on this one as けど can be used in a lot more places to mean more things than just “but”.

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Yeah, that is actually on the to do list :triumph:

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@mrnoone I kinda wanted to answer with だけれど because it sounded better, but second guessed myself. That said, はじめて isn’t a noun, so the explanation isn’t helpful. :slight_smile:

image

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@seanblue When 初めて carries the meaning of “for the first time”, it can be interpreted as both a “の-adjective” (also known as a noun) and an adverb :slightly_smiling_face:. Since “の-adjective” is such an ambiguous term we decided that “noun” was a more appropriate hint. When 初めて carries the meaning of “only after … is it …”, “only when … do you …”, then it is an adverb. Cheers!

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Ah, that makes sense. の-adjective isn’t really a thing I guess.

With that said, the two monolingual dictionaries I checked only list it as 副, not 名. So I wonder how I’m supposed to figure out that I can count it as a noun for things like this. :thinking:

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It is like looking from a wider perspective at の, as a very versatile particle that is used to connect nouns.

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But what about what I said about the monolingual dictionary only listing it as an adverb?

Why is it wrong to put 「ですけれども」 or 「ですけれど」 in the sentence “秋だけど、温かいです。”? It’s using the polite 「です」 at the end, but gets corrected to 「だけど」.

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Hey :grin:

Generally, politeness (です/ます) is only marked at the end of the sentence. Or if the sentence is cut in the middle (for some reason).

It rarely happens in subordinate clauses (like けれど clause etc) and may sound too polite. Though it is fairly common to see です/ます before が.

It is not wrong, but I would say it is a bad habbit.

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@Isurandil492
B y the way, I have fixed it on site, but forgot to mention:
It should be 暖かい, instead of 温かい.
The first one is used for weather and climate in general and the second one for things like water, tea, solid objects etc.

I read in the lesson for 〜だ that you can’t use い-adjectives with だ. I thought that was true here as well. Is it?
(My question was the one about pork, and it had an い-adjective before I was supposed to put だけど.)

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嫌い is a な-adjective, not an い-adjective.

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@mattbacon, like @seanblue says, it is the tricky な adjective, which seems to be い adjective at first sight.
There are also other ones, the most common ones are:

  • きれい 綺麗 beautiful, clean
  • あんせい 安静 rest

By the way, we used 嫌い on purpose, so learners would realize that there are also なadjectives like that. The sooner the better.

I have added a note about that under the sentence :+1:

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Is it one of those fancy notes that only shows up when you answer with a specific wrong answer? I love those.

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Both ways, under the example sentence and when you provide the wrong answer.

I am glad that you like them :+1:

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So this is a question involving both けど and けれども。 I hope it’s ok to put it here because my grammar books aren’t currently helping.

During reviews I used 「ですけれども」 in a sentence after an い adjective (At least I believe it was, I didn’t capture it, unfortunately) and got it wrong. Taking a look at the grammar details I saw the chart where だ+けど and です+けれども are only listed after な adjectives and nouns. I made my first grammar note to “be aware” and moved on feeling empowered. Yay!

…When…I ran into this sentence: 「その店は高い____、美味しいでしょう」my answer けけれども was correct (although it was looking for けど) but ですけど, ですけれど, and ですけれども are also listed as alternative answers. I feel like I’m missing something. Is it that the first part of this specific sentence is an independent clause and the other sentence (that I can’t remember) was not?

In other words, are there any extra examples/help to explain when to use だ・です before けど・けれど・けれども?

Many thanks for any help anyone can give!

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In 「その店は高い____、美味しいでしょう」, note that it ends in a polite form. This means that (for this grammar at least) it’s okay to use both けど by itself and ですけど earlier in the sentence. It’s possible that in your earlier review, the sentence ends in plain form. In that case, it would be wrong to use です earlier in the sentence since it would be inconsistent in the level of formality.

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Thanks, that clears it up a bit I think. In other words, です can come in based on the formality, even if it’s an い-adjective or a verb?

If I’m interpreting this correctly: だ・です can optionally appear before けど even if the preceding word is a verb or いーadjective, depending on formality. But, if it’s after a noun or な-adjective, だ・です will reliable appear (are required) before けど. Like in the chart?

I hope that makes enough sense to be correct…or correct if I’m wrong :sweat_smile: I really appreciate the help.

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@reverie
Hey and welcome on the community forums :partying_face:

Like @seanblue says, as a rule of thumb, the polite form (which is expressed through です with adjectives (both kinds)/nouns or ます with verbs) should be used only at the end of the the sentence (main clause).
We have to remember, that だ (unlike です) is attached only to nouns and なadjectives. いadjectives and verbs are simply left as they are.
So
安いだけど、いい。
毎日シャワーを浴びるだけど、今日は浴びない。are wrong
But:
安いですけど、いいです。
毎日シャワーを浴びますけど、今日は浴びません。are possible
PS (This might be confusing/advanced)
毎日シャワーを浴びる。だけど、今日は浴びない。(two sentences)
毎日シャワーを浴びるだけど、今日は浴びない。(using の/ん) are also correct, since の・ん is technically like noun, and in the first case, we have two separate sentences.

So let’s say we have example:
安いけど、いい。Cheap, but good.
便利だけど、高い。Convenient, but expensive.
毎日シャワーを浴びるけど、今日は浴びない。I take shower everyday, bot not today.
夏だけど、寒い。 It is summer, but it is cold.

If we want to make it polite using our rule of thumb:
安いけど、いいです。
便利だけど、高いです。
毎日シャワーを浴びるけど、今日は浴びません。
夏だけど、寒いです。

If we want to be extremelly polite (and not that gramatical), we can use polite form not only at the end of the clause but also in subordinate clauses. So:
安いですけど、いいです。
便利ですけど、高いです。
毎日シャワーを浴びますけど、今日は浴びません。
夏ですけど、寒いです。
Are possible.

HOWEVER, we would break the rule if we used polite form in the subordinate clause, but not in the main clause (at the end of the sentence).
安いです、いい。
便利ですけど、高い。
毎日シャワーを浴びますけど、今日は浴びない。
夏ですけど、寒い。

These are ungramatical.

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