のに - Grammar Discussion

despite
although
even though

Structure

  • Verb + のに
  • Noun + な・のに
  • い-Adjective + のに
  • な-Adjective + な・のに

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Clause after のに can be facts (事実) but can’t be judgements (仮定).
Clause after ても can be facts or judgements but mainly for judgements.
Clause after のに can be used to convey emotions.

https://www.tomojuku.com/blog/noni-temo/

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鉛筆えんぴつ必要ひつよういていたのにってなかった。

In this sentence, how is 書いていた coming to mean “It was written”? I would have read that as “[Someone] was writing”. Or is it just that an unspecified person, such as a teacher, was writing it and the speaker is referencing that?

In this sentence 書いていた is referring to a change of state.

Empty blackboard: 鉛筆が必要と書いていない
After the teacher writes “鉛筆が必要”: 鉛筆が必要と書いている
After the teacher erases blackboard: 鉛筆が必要と書いていた

Would it make sense to you if I were to say that 鉛筆が必要 was written on the blackboard?

I’m afraid not - I understood that 書いていた meant “was writing”, not “was written”. I would have expected 書かれていた in that case.

Going back to「鉛筆が必要と書いていない」though, Google Translate gives it as “Doesn’t say I need a pencil”, so is it just that 書いている (and the various conjugations) is used to mean “to say” in the non-vocal sense of the word, as in “The rota says I’m working Tuesday”?

It can mean either depending on the context. In the first case we are referring to an action that happened over a period of time (someone was not writing, then they were writing then there were not writing). In the second case we are referring to a change in state (the words were not written and now they are written).

I think と書かれていた emphasizes more that what you were quoting was written on something.

In the sense that someone wrote it down. という is quoting what someone said, と思うis quoting what someone thought, と書く is quoting what someone wrote, etc.

So if, for example, someone dropped a bunch of those children’s cubes with the letters on them such that they landed saying “HELP”, you wouldn’t use it?

I note from the grammar point on change of state that it “is used with a verb that expresses a change that happens within a moment”, so presumably in this case it’s the moment of writing that’s being considered?

I also see that there’s some ambiguity with the interpretation of ている with certain verbs anyway, so I guess this is probably just one of those things you have to memorise, rather than figure out.

Would と書かれている have the nuance of “It is (generally) written (and accepted by everyone) that you need a pencil (in these situations)” ?
It follows the same syntax as と考えられている と言われている と思われている.

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I am a bit confused on the fun fact that states:

“Regardless of having two quite different translations (‘despite’, and ‘in order to’), のに always functions in the same way.
In the situation of ‘(A) のに, (B)’, (B) is/will be the result.
The only difference between how the nuance will be read, is whether the (B) statement is a logical conclusion, or an illogical one. When logical, the meaning is usually ‘in order to’, when ‘illogical’, the meaning is usually ‘despite’.”

I tried browsing for a sentence that translates to “in order to” but my search has come up flat. What would be an example of an logical sentence that would translate to “in order to”?

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I’m baaaaack :kissing_closed_eyes:
Separate grammar lessons

In order to

Despite

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Haha, back again! Thanks again, it seems like what Im looking for is in another grammar lesson :rofl:

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