Instant Japanese and Instant Ramen

Japanese
#1

There is no easter bunny,

There is no tooth fairy,

There is no get rich quick scheme,

and there is no instantly-learn-japanese-
with-this-one-of-a-kind-method-in-
just-under-1-year-speedrun.

What I am trying to say is: Do not speedrun Japanese.

“But I can try!”

you might say.

“It will be fun!”

you might say.
…

Fun. F u n. Of course it will be fun–
if you consider pushing yourself through an unrealistic and goal-oriented journey towards inevatible burnout infront of the crushing reality of Japanese being literally and objectively (among the) hardest language to learn, fun, sure.

The people who were able to this this are
A: Liars, B: Asian, or C: The Exception.
And if you consider yourself the special boy,
take a look into the river next to the household of your choosing,
look inside, and maybe take a wild stab at why a pair of deniably human legs are lurking out of the water, and why they are accompanied by a pair of oddly oval objects (which you might rather expect a bird to wear) rapidly approaching the precipice of a waterfall a little too big to allow you to think
“What an odd way to bathe.”

What I am trying to say is, don’t jump into that river.
It is a metaphor for not overworking yourself, sure,
but I mean really, don’t jump into rivers.
It is bad for your long term health.
Well, I guess it is also bad for your short term health; You will also get frostbite.
Have you seen pictures of frostbite?
Don’t get frostbite.

You might have noticed that I did not talk about instant Ramen.
Or maybe you were too taken aback, too dazzled, too dumbfounded, too bewildered, by my amazing analogies to notice.

Well, I originally meant to make a joke about instant Ramen being bad and unpolished and Instant Japanese also being bad and unpolished, so thats that.
On second thought though… I really like instant Ramen. Hm. Shit.
Ill just stick with the river metaphor.

P.s
Very much alike my original thought on creating a ramen metaphor, sometimes “unpolished” or in my case “utterly horrible” is okay.
You don’t need to be perfect, you just need to be better than you were yesterday and realize: rivers make better metaphors than noodles, even if they are tasty.

10 Likes
#2

インスタントラーメンがおいしいけど?

#3

残念ながらそうだよ

#4

Once I’ve heart a term 「刹那グソ」so now I’ve come up with「刹那麺」
Back to the topic, if you don’t understand speedrunning it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be practiced. Speedrunning japanese is a joke compared to some kind of sport, like chess for example.
8 hours every day, trying to get all of your brain, making it work as much as it can and enjoying it, without burning yourself, for 10-15k hours, not 3-5k that you need for Japanese
It’s just entirely different from “playing chess for fun” which is also practiced and there is nothing bed in it. So is learning Japanese can be practiced the both ways.

1 Like
#5

yeah, some might have a very different understanding of fun, than others ^^ doesn’t make them wrong, though. but why badmouthing something others enjoy?

3 Likes
#6

instant ramen is very high in salt

eta: just realised this comes off as snark bc of the double meaning of salt, but was intended to be a silly throwaway comment about ramen

3 Likes
#7

:pleading_face: :rabbit2:

9 Likes
#8

whats ur fav ramen flavour

  • Shoyu
  • Miso
  • Shio
  • Tonkotsu
  • Iekei
  • Kaisen
  • Other

0 voters

3 Likes
#9

But I cannot disagree that there is seemly harmful trend with chasing something, and paying attention to what others can do instead of what you can do, comparison that doesn’t make sense (I think comparing yourself to others can be good if you keep in mind all the factors and can assume difference. You can make a theory based on avg or best/worst cases and try to apply it to yourself, test it, reavalue everything, find new parameters that were not included before, correct it based on gained experience, continue)

So I think there is no harm in learning language a lot, it’s more about people not knowing how to do it, or not knowing why doing it, or a lot of other things that that can exist around it.

But again, if a person starts speedrunning something, it’s persons decision, and in many cases it there will be some kind of idea behind it, a worldview, a hypothesis (even if not verbalised).

And the question is, if a lesson from a speedrun will be taken, or will be ignored and the mistake (if doing this speedrun like this was one) of the same nature will accrue again.

If person can not learn with mistakes, or its ability is limited, that should be the point of the discussion, but not the general concept of learning Japanese at a high speed.

1 Like
#10

I think this is kind of important because the Japanese learning community can be pretty inhospitable and I think that speed runners do kind of contribute to the competitiveness and kind of rigid attitudes within the community. Bunpro is very chill but other forums definitely have a min max approach that speed running really feeds into.

2 Likes
#11

I just start learning 3 months ago with the pace of 2-3 hours everyday (except weekend) and I have seen an advertisement that can make you possibly passing N3 starting from zero knowledge within 4 months. The study method is about a remote study combined with self study as well. The question is: Is that even possible ? heard that passing N3 is taking around thousands hour

1 Like
#12

I think it is possible but the bigger question is whether it is sustainable, enjoyable, and long-lasting. I would argue no to all three.

2 Likes
#13

I think it’s just I say “speedrunning” for putting a lot of hours and effort into the study, but maybe this post is against people that possess the character or a Japanese speedrunner?

What I want to say, is that I think it’s not that people are pulling in competitiveness and rigidness because they speedrun Japanese, but they speedrun Japanese because they possess those qualities, and speedrunning just becomes their tool to do it.

If I think, even if people on Reddit hate speedrunner, they, who hate them, are super stiff and the most stuff they do is look at anki stats and argue which kind of template is better in comments (I feel degrees every time I visit it)

So I think we should fight against that, the cause, but not against the act of putting a lot of hours and effort into the Japanese itself!

4 Likes
#14

Ah, well said! I agree.

3 Likes
#15

This is well said I think. Because obviously a lot of hours go into language learning. ANY language at that.

One thing I think language speedrunners ALSO try to do is they focus heavily on the speaking aspect and not so much the reading. But what they fail to know or maybe dont believe is the sheer amount of research that shows that in total immersion it takes the average person ~2 years to become conversational in a language. With the exceptions being children. Literal kids to maybe mid-teens. The way the brain works and thinks can still be changed quickly in that state as you learn how to even think.

So sure, one could spend all that time listening and doing anki and becoming quote unquote “N1” but when the times comes to speak they will flounder because thats a skill you cant train without doing it. I also dont understand the appeal of speedrunning a language. Like yea, learn as much as you want when you want, but that end game? There is no finish line for a language. And when you get immersed it its so different. No amount of anki or J-dramas will ever fill that cultural knowledge gap that takes years of work alone.

I like the phrase that gets thrown around “Its a marathon, not a sprint.”

5 Likes
#16

The goal of speedrunning is to see the credits as fast as possible. there are no credits in a language, therefore speedrunning is impossible. (Except for English where Johnny English is the creator- in order to see the credits you just have to write "Written by Johnny English)

another thing about “speedrunning” is that they use shortcuts- the difference between a game and a language is a game you need to know very well, a language you can pretend to know very well or are only hyper specialized in a certain area (like ordering from a menu fluently- but then the waiter asks “would you like rice with that?” suddenly you are completely lost and crying while hiding your face under the menu.)

The idea alone is a bit silly- you don’t “speedrun a conversation” you don’t “speedrun writing a novel” (unless you’re a YA writer writing romance slop) they just aren’t compatible with the nature of speedrunning.

4 Likes
#17

I do when solicitors come to my door ><

(I get your point though- and its a good one. Speedrunning and deep learning are inherently incompatible)

4 Likes
#18

I guess to build on your point, speedrunning a language is like saying “I will make 100 friends this year.” To me at least, the definition of friend is incompatible with having 100 - like I can have 100 people I am friendly with, but a friend is someone who I can ask a favour, have in depth convos with, feel somewhat emotionally close to, etc. Its not a title I personally could bestow upon more than like 10-15 people. Language learning is like that too- it’s about quality and not just quantity, though quantity is not NOT a part of the conversation.

edit: INB4 cafelatte has no friends

edit edit: actually rather than quantity over quality I feel like its about… immeasurable metrics over measurable ones? if that makes sense?

5 Likes
#19

your comment is great and one of the most level-headed takes ones here :slight_smile: and i agree with most of what you said. but this sentence? i hate it so much :sweat_smile: I always think, this phrase in particular forces a single-minded “best practice” on everybody. just like those forcible speedrunners, language bros, anki card discussers. it doesn’t leave room for people, that are a bit odd or different. not everybody who runs, trains for a marathon. some train for sprints, some train for health, some train for fun. and all those different goals and styles can’t be summarized in this simple sentence. a binge learning and rest cycle can be just as functional as daily, regular learning. (though i do understand, that many people who binge, take way to long of a pause, but that’s a different problem).

hope that doesnt sound too critical, as i said, i basically agree with you. im just the type of person who hates overgeneralizations, that fit like 90% of people, and ignores the reality of 10% of people. i had been part of that 10% way too often and it gets so tiresome :sweat_smile:

2 Likes
#20

Isn’t it just about goals then?
For example we can say this about a person trying to do 2 Bunpro points every day, or 5 words in Anki. Personally I don’t think it’s inherently bad.

Then it’s just about how you do those 5 words, if you’re trying to find things you know to which you can connect them, trying to recall kanji, reading more context, dealing with leaches, or just adding more of them without thinking another though (which is also a valid way if study if it’s the persons limit at this point, finding srs is already a great step from a regular school/tutorship!)

1 Like