Is it normal to not understand while reading?

Japanese
#1

Hey all,

I’m no stranger to trying to learn Japanese. I’ve dabbled in it for years/decades but never treated it with the attention I should have, rather than intermittently learning things a month here and there. I’ve been using WaniKani now for a year and have kept up pretty well with that too. The past few months though I’ve been really trying, taking it seriously, studying every day, and utilizing different resources (even hired a tutor on Italki last week).

Bottomline, my question is this. Is it normal for you to read a sentence in Japanese, your brain understands it, but you don’t actually know what it says/understand until your finished and break it apart to analyze each word? (if that explanation makes sense) I feel like I should be able to understand/translate as I’m reading simple sentences. However, it feels like my brain is static white noise as I’m reading and it’s not until after I’m done will it piece it together and looked at each word individually.

Just feels frustrating :expressionless:

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read and reply.

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#2

I’m actually at the same position right now. I’m able to read and understand simple stuff by doing it slowly and breaking things apart, but I don’t get the meaning of the sentence while reading it on real time, even if I understand every word. Of course that makes speaking/listening impossible for me :sweat_smile:

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#3

Personally, I think it’s a question of practice and time. I’m doing Japanese class from October starting at an intermediate-advanced level and I had some trouble to read paragraphs because I didn’t read at all before but now I got better and understand more the intention with the sentence.

I think the more you do the better you’ll get at it and it’s ok to be slow and lost when you start. Hope it will be helpful

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#4

I think this is actually normal and a high level function. We do this in our native language too. It’s the difference between extensive and intensive reading as well. When you break it down you are reading intensively.

I often read and just get the vibe without translating. Actually, the goal is not to translate, but to understand without translation. However, intensive methods and translating are good too, especially at earlier levels. Anyway, I don’t think what you’re experiencing is bad at all.

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#5

I agree with @cafelatte here. Enough exposure, you will not need to “piece” things together. I started watching videos with Japanese subtitles and audio less than a year in. At that point, I just let it flow and let my brain piece stuff together, and at this point in my learning journey, I do not experience many moments where I am completely lost and need to piece something together. Get used to understanding a little instantly and leaving more unknown than you are used to with English. The difference in contexts in the language also adds to this feeling of not understanding. Build your context understanding by mass exposure and that will help a lot.

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#6

I might be wrong on this, but in my experience, a lot of times when people struggle going from simple to more complex sentences, it’s often because there start to be more noun clauses and it can be easy to get lost in them. I often suggest pulling out the main parts, figuring out where the subjects are, what’s description/noun clauses, etc. and that does require a bit of unpacking.

That said, it’s also one of those things that the more you do, the better you’ll get. Things that a few years ago I would have had to dissect I now just “get”, so to speak, and that’s just from practice.

I also personally found that novels/short stories are easier to follow than essays in many cases, and so if you’re reading a lot of academic, news, or essays, you might find it easier to read prose instead as a way to bridge the gap.

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#7

I’d say, ideally the mental image is gradually building and updating in the process of reading the sentence.

As an illustration:
「知らない」ok there’s something unknown
「ベッド」there’s an unknown bed
「の上で」something is on top of an unknown bed
「 幽鬼ユウキは」katakana furigana, is it a name? but this is who’s on top of that bed. The sentence is no longer about the bed but it’s now about ユウキ who is located there
「目を」did something to some eyes
「覚ました」opened her eyes/woke up
Alright got it, Yuuki woke up on top of an unknown bed.

I’ve tried to over-analyze how the image transforms, but really it is an almost instantaneous process that happens in parallel slightly behind reading.

Now, does it happen that the whole sentence is a white static of unconnected parts until you finish it and think it through a couple of times? It does happen for me sometimes. I’d guess it’s due to excessive ambiguity. Either I don’t understand how some words could fit in this context, or there’s an unknown grammar / set expression, or it’s ambiguous what modifies what and none of the possibilities immediately make sense.

It’s a practice makes perfect kind of thing, and yeah I agree that reading more straightforward writing styles definitely helps.

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#8

Short answer: Yes.

Reading to understand and reading to translate are two different skills. So if you read and understand it, it doesn’t necessarily mean you can explain it.

The same applies the other way though. You may be able to translate something but not necessarily understand it in either language even when translated.

I came across this in my language exchange when my exchange partner asked me a question. I understood it in Japanese and answered correctly but it was only after he asked what we would use in English that I realised I couldn’t quite translate the concept or explain it in English.

I know we tend to use both. Translating first to try to understand then as our skills improve and we embed the language, we move from translating into subconscious understanding. I suppose whichever you train is the more dominant skill and depends on if you study to understand and respond, or if you study to translate.

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#9

Real time translation is something that I definitely am struggling with and I guess the overall purpose of my original post. It was really encouraging to see everyone reply and see that it’s normal for us to go through this as we develop our skills. If we keep at it, we’ll be able to triumph over it! Thanks for you reply!

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#10

I greatly appreciate your reply! Practice will certainly help and I need to keep this in mind as I continue to level up. May I ask in your experience if you know of any recommended elementary-level books to read that could help? Thank you for your reply!

#11

Thank you for the reassurance. It helps my brain calm down and know what I’m experiencing is normal and that the struggles are literally just my brain improving upon itself haha (i hope that’s what my brain is doing >.>) Thank you!

#12

I’ve attempted the same to some extent. I subscribed to a Youtube Podcast called “Japanese Super Immersion Radio” (https://www.youtube.com/@JSI55). Their membership is .99 a month, so very much worth the price and it helps them out! They have a lot of N5/N4 podcasts (but do higher levels too) and do vocab/grammar points and just have normal discussions too. Plaything this in the background my brain picks up on key things and can somewhat (to a limited extent) of what they are talking about. I feel like they have really helped improve my listening skills. Thanks for your reply!

#13

I can agree 100% regarding more complex/ noun clauses are causing more headaches and confusion. Do you have any recommendations of beginner friendly stories, novels, manga, that are great entry-level friendly? Thanks for taking the time to reply!

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#14

Your breakdown is rather spot on. I honestly feel that’s exactly the process that goes through my brain either as I read or finish the sentence and digest it in chunks to breakdown the information. Thanks so much for helping me convey this into a way that helps visualize and state how the process goes. As you mention I need to just keep at it and practice practice practice. Thank you so much!

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#15

It’s earie how much that rings for me. To read and understand what the sentence is saying but still unable to covert/translate into English in a comprehensible way strikes home for me as sentences get more complex. I hadn’t thought of this process as two separate skills either, this suggestion makes a lot more sense too. It could also explain the frustrations I’m feeling as I’m looking at it as a whole as opposed to seeing that it’s multiple skills involved regarding the situation I posted about. I really appreciate you sharing your experience and replying!

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#16

I’m at this level too. I’m reading Spice and Wolf and Apothecary Diaries light novel versions in Japanese. I was surprised by the jump in difficulty. I can read everything except for archaic words, which thankfully have furigana, but sometimes long sentences with a ton of noun modifications can be really difficult. I’ve gather from my experience reading JLPT readings, short stories, manga etc., that its best to just skip the parts you don’t know, and try to understand the passages as a whole. Your brain will eventually learn. Its more time efficient to skip and try to absorb meaning naturally than taking the time to break everything down and get frustrated. I think this is a good thing. You are also aware of it, which is good. Learning Japanese is a long road, and you should have fun doing it =)

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#17

Ultra common.

This is something I hear from students all the time, and like all learners, I’ve experienced this before and still experience it to this day. In most cases it just boils down to lack of vocabulary. Japanese is full of so many words, it’s easy to mix them up and not know many of the nuanced ones. It’s not just vocab, but I would say that it’s the main culprit.

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#18

Being able to digest native content (especially in realtime) is almost entirely a function of your level of exposure.

Day 1, you don’t even recognize hiragana, so all you see is a jumble of lines.

Day 14, maybe you can recognize kana, and a handful of kanji, so now you’ll have flashes of meaning with no idea about intent.

Month 3, you’ve probably built out some vocab, and your grasp of particles is strengthening, so the overall structure of sentences is coming into focus, but meaning is often still opaque due to unknown vocab and grammar.

Year 1, if you’re reading and listening to things appropriate for your level, then you’ve encountered MOST of the things you’re seeing before. It might still take you a while to make sense of it, but you have the tools to break it down. (This is probably where a lot of people are at)

Year 5, nearly every phrase you encounter is something you’re familiar with. You’re no longer playing catch-up, so even while the barrage of syllables is coming at you, you’ve predicted 90% of it already. You’re basically just waiting for the other party to fill in the blanks. Language ability is familiarity. When you can hear 今、____を____している__国の成人は__人に1人だそうです as a whole instead of the individual parts, then the meaning is clear before they even fill in the blanks. You’re simply waiting on the idea to be conveyed. That’s where people want to be, but by definition you need massive exposure to the language to get to that point, and that takes time.

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#19

I personally started out reading Murakami short story collections, and found them really great because he’s a wonderful writer so they’re enjoyable to read as well. I’ve also heard people like light novels, but I haven’t read them. I read the Galileo mystery novels by Higashino before moving on to “real” novels because they’re several stories in one volume, so longer than a normal short story, but less overwhelming than a long novel. I’d say the most important thing is a story you like. You might even be able to find something you’ve read in English translated into Japanese.

One of the advantages of prose is that it can get you used to the idea that you don’t have to understand everything you read to get it. Often I would be able to follow what was going on, even though I only knew about 80% of the vocabulary. Sometimes, especially with the detective stories, I’d need to pull out a dictionary and really make sure I got it because there would be a lot of specialized vocabulary, but whenever I did really sit down to make sure I was following, I’d almost always find that I had it right and just wasn’t confident.

It’s good because essentially what you’re doing IS learning to pick out the important parts of a sentence, and how to infer parts you don’t know. It’s also a good way to pick up some fun new vocab you usually would come across.

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#20

what do you mean by “real” novels?
I’ve read a few of his Galileo works in English and they seemed fairly novel like to me. They’ve all been single stories per novel too, such as The Devotion of Suspect X.