MAJOR UPDATE! November 24, 2019

Bunpro
#41

I don’t really mind the cut-off being 75%, because I feel like if you get it wrong 1 in 4 times, then you’re already on the edge of not knowing it that well, but I agree maybe this should only be applied after a certain number of initial reviews so that you’ve gotten past the ‘I just started learning this’ part and it looks more and more like a leech. And then maybe, in addition, weigh newer reviews more heavily, as @seanblue suggests.

However, it would be nice, like @d11 and @ApolloFortyNine mention, to be able to tell which are the worst ones. However, I’d personally still want to be able to see all of the ones below the threshold.

May I suggest that instead of only showing some of them, you could add the percentages for each point in the corner of the box for that point in the troubled section?

This way I could just scan for the lowest percentages (or even sort?) and work from there if I want, but I can also gauge my overall performance a bit better because I can see more than just the worst x points.

4 Likes
#42

It’s easily possible to get a particularly hard grammar point stuck in ‘low percentage hell’. If you had missed a point 8 times in a row, and then got it right 12 times in a row, now it would be eliminated from all further reviews, it would still be listed as ‘troubled’.

So at least adding a less than SRS level 8 would make sense to me. If you hit SRS 8 then you were able to recall after 2 week, so it’s likely not ‘troubled’ any more. I have at least one point that is on SRS 9 and still listed as troubled, and looking at it again now, it certainly isn’t trouble any more.

The issue seems to be that if you miss a card 3 times while learning, it would take over a month of getting it right every time to drop off the troubled list. And getting a grammar point wrong 3 times while learning isn’t that hard to do.

4 Likes
#43

Hmm, yeah, I see what you mean. I think adding thresholds would be good, both minimum (e.g. only applied after you’ve seen it x number of times, avoiding your last example) and maximum (e.g. once you’ve gotten it to SRS level x, it goes away no matter percentage so far, avoiding your first example).

But I still think most issues with grammar points getting stuck as troubled even when you’ve improved on them can be eliminated by weighing newer reviews more heavily like suggested above. I think this more accurately reflects your actual performance while still keeping the troubled grammar feature, which I really like. Actually, this would probably make the whole feature even more useful in another way, too: With newer reviews being weighted more heavily would also mean that something you knew before but are starting to slip up on will be flagged more quickly.

3 Likes
#44

Did you change the troubled grammar calculation? Cause yesterday I had 52 items across n5/4/3, and today I only have 1.

Honestly I’d prefer the old calculation, cause when I was doing that cram session, I only got 60% right, so obviously those are problem points and should still be on my list.

I just started trying it out a couple days ago and was quite happy with the results. But the way it is now… it’s not really of any use to me anymore.

So if you could change it to give us control over what it shows please.

3 Likes
#45

The funny thing is that I would prefer the current settings since before the hotfix I had like 150+ troubled points, now I have only 35 which is far more precise and useful.

Indeed, it looks like the only solution that would make everyone happy is the implementation of a custom troubled threshold setting, though it may be hard to implement. Well, the more customization we have the better since everyone has a different way of learning.

2 Likes
#46

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:expressionless: I definitely like the former calculation better. The new one is quite… useless

4 Likes
#47

I think they’re removing the first attempts for the first four SRS levels rather than just nit showing troubled grammar when it hasn’t left the first four levels yet.

2 Likes
#48

All of mine are past first 4 srs levels, so it’s not just that.

2 Likes
#49

I think there should be a way to prioritize one level over another when selecting multiple JLPT levels, like getting mostly N4 with some N5 ones sprinkled throughout, etc. That would be useful

#50

@Pep95, @Kai, @lopicake, @Wattsy2020, @Schuylerca, @d11, @ApolloFortyNine, @aneeline, @Seraseth, @Anthropos888, and @Beato Thank you all for your feedback and suggestions. We decided to use a formula very similar to @seanblue’s leech script for Wanikani.

After running the numbers, we believe that this formula is the most balanced, if not the most accurate, as it also takes into account your current streak.

Whether or not a grammar point is considered Troubled Grammar or not, is now based on your streak (SRS level) and how many times you have answered that grammar point incorrectly. Each streak level has a corresponding number of times a grammar point has been answered incorrectly before it is marked as Troubled Grammar. The threshold is your current streak to the power of 1.5.

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Let’s say that one of the grammar points you are studying is at streak 4. Since 4^1.5 is 8, you would have to have gotten that grammar point incorrect 8 or more times for it to be considered Troubled Grammar.

*Grammar points cannot be moved to Troubled Grammar until they have a streak of at least 2.

Even if you miss a grammar point multiple times in the beginning, you will still be able to move that item out of Troubled Grammar based on what streak level that grammar point resides. In other words, more emphasis is placed on your streak than the number of times you have answered incorrectly since your streak is weighted with the power of 1.5 modifiers.

This means that as your streak goes up, you have been getting it right more than wrong which tells us a lot more about how “troubled” or not that grammar item is than just how many times you have answered correctly or incorrectly.

Special thanks to @seanblue!

Let us know what you think! Cheers!

17 Likes
#51

so much better! 34 out of 167… now I can actually work on real problems and ignore the new stuff… great job getting this implemented!

2 Likes
#52

With this new formula I only have one troubled grammar point, which is surprising I guess. Most of my grammar points are at higher SRS levels though, so it makes sense.

Can you show us more stats about each grammar point somewhere? Related to the troubled grammar feature, I’d like to know how many times I’ve gotten an item right and wrong. Depending on how much you want to add, a Stats tab for each grammar point may make sense instead of shoving it into the Meaning tab with the streak.

6 Likes
#53

I went from probably at least 100+ down to 6 so yeah it’s definitely an extreme change.

I feel like I have more troubled grammar than that but then again it also threw in ていけない in there and honestly I feel like I don’t have trouble with such a basic grammar point but who knows?

I’ll see as I do more reviews.

2 Likes
#54

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Still no troubled grammar. Would be nice to have a setting to adjust the calculation, cause in fact I have a lot of grammar that I forget frequently.

2 Likes
#55

So normally for that formula, 1> is associated with a leech. You could allow users to change that value to home in on their grammatical imperfections.

1 Like
#56

Ohh, @Pushindawood could take the threshold and add some kind of sensitivity setting. Low, medium, and high or something like that. Give users a little flexibility without making it complicated.

6 Likes
#57

Second this. Even though I know which points are troubled, I still feel a bit blind not knowing how bad the percentage for each point actually is.

@Pushindawood This looks great! One small question: Could I still end up with troubled grammar even at streak 12 or do you think that’s only theoretically possible using this formula?

2 Likes
#58

Would this maybe be more meaningful if we started accounting for the real current streak? I.e., “How many times has this grammar been answered correctly consecutively?”

5 Likes
#59

That’s how the one in WaniKani works, and it works pretty well.

2 Likes
#60

That makes sense. Normally I forget grammar points at SRS 8 or 9. So if I answer the grammar point 9 times correct and then one time incorrect, my Bunpro SRS/Streak would be 8 but my actual streak would be 1. The current calculation using the Bunpro streak wouldn’t count that as troubled grammar. But using the actual streak would count it as troubled, which makes sense to me.

2 Likes