combined particles
Structure
[Used to indicate that Noun 1 modifies Noun 2, not the predicate of the clause]
[A sentence without の can mean essentially the same thing. However, its omission can also substantially change the meaning of the sentence]
Could you give example of this circumstance? I caught the examples on the selftaughtjapanese link but wondered if you had an extreme example to watch out for.
I second that. Maybe something like the intransitive vs transitive examples from N4?
I’ll try. From the example sentences:
The の in 今までの対立 is what makes this an “ongoing conflict”.
Without the の, the 今まで applies to the predicate instead, so it would mean something like “The reason for the conflict isn’t widely known yet”.
With の: The summer camp life (specifically) is so much fun!
Without: At the summer camp, life (in general) is so much fun!
4 Likes
I’ve been trying to figure this grammar point out for ages and it still doesn’t make any sense to me. I’ve gone through all the readings minus the textbooks that I don’t have and was wondering if I should pick up Tobira to try to make sense of this? Or if there’s a better way to get my head around this.
I’m alright with particles but something about putting them together breaks my brain a bit. Like I just don’t get when I should add の and how it changes the meaning.
@cineebon Hey! It might be better to think of の as “the one that…” or a nominalizer like のは that is replacing some information that can be inferred through context. @nekoyama did a great job of breaking down the differences between the inclusion and omission of の in two sentences in the post above.
Let’s take a closer look at the second sentence that appears on the grammar point’s page, 昨晩からの雨はやっと止んだよ。 - “The rain that started from yesterday evening finally stopped.” If we were to omit の, the sentence would sound something like “Rain from yesterday evening has finally stopped.” The omission and the sentence’s translation both leave something to be desired. The の is essential saying “that had been falling” or “that started (falling).” Since this information can be determined through context, the verb (降っていた) is replaced by の.
As you continue on your Japanese journey, you will find that Japanese people will go out of their way to omit information if it can be inferred through context.
Let’s take a look at the third sentence on Bunpro, おじいちゃんはポーランドでの思い出をだんだんと忘れてきた。- “Grandpa has been slowly forgetting his memories of Poland.” The の here could be replacing “time lived” or “time spent,” so “The memories (from the time spent) in Poland are what my grandfather has been forgetting” could be implied given the context.
To sum up:
昨晩からの雨 - The rain (that has been falling) since last night.
ポランドでの思い出 - The memories (from the time spent) in Poland.
彼は彼女への愛情でいっぱいのメッセージ - The messages filled with love (that) he (sends) her.
今までの対立 - The conflict (that has been ongoing) until now.
I hope this helps. Cheers!
4 Likes
Hello!! Why in this case we use の i understand へ but why i have to add の。 Not just へ
It’s because this is the grammar point for particle + の 
In this sentence, the の makes the はやてさんへ modify the お世辞, so they become “compliments to Hayate”. And those are what Nagi is saying all the time. The English translation is structured differently, it looks like the “to Hayate” belongs ot the verb. A more literal translation (but worse English) could be “Nagi is always saying compliments that are addressed to Hayate”.
1 Like
Hi, I’m having trouble understanding the use of の with the と particle in this specific example.「あちゃんとの握手会に行こう！」 I don’t understand how の is used here since 握手会 does not describe any possession of the group but an action to perform. It feels like it’s あちゃん’s and yours 握手会, not someone else’s. The description of the grammar point says it connects A and B, but I don’t see how they’re more connected than just 「あちゃんと握手会に行こう！」
The English translation is ambiguous here. It could mean either of these two:
- You and your friend A-chan go to a handshake event together.
- You go to a handshake event, where you can shake hands with a celebrity called A-chan.
The Japanese text is not ambiguous. An あちゃんとの握手会 is a handshake event where you can shake hands with someone called A-chan, because the の makes the part before it describe the 握手会. Without the の, this would not be the case.
2 Likes