Pitch Accent - Reasons to Start Learning

Japanese
#216

Here is an interesting dissertation about the perception of pitch accent by non native Japanese speakers and a procedure to train. It details also a short training procedure (6 sessions of 30 minutes in one month), that seems to produce real skill improvements in perception and production. There is probably something to do with this (Anki deck?), at least for improving perception (checking correct production would require more work and sophisticated tools, if no Japanese guy is available). https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitstream/handle/1808/8022/HiranoCook_ku_0099D_11708_DATA_1.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

During my reviews on Wanikani I sometimes try to guess the pitch accent then check on Takoboto or Yomichan and, guess what ?, it is not as difficult as I thought. And it is quite fun, so finally I think that it is something that could indeed be recommended even to beginners. I try this sometimes on BunPro too but it is much harder to perceive pitch accent of words inside a sentence (so maybe this is for a next level).

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#217

One question just to be sure: you have read it, and you found out it having useful information, am I right?

I consider reading it, but I need any indicator if it is practically useful to somebody who have read it. 140 pages of technical English it is at very minimum 3h+ read if there is not too much of new knowledge to think about, and that is probably not the case…

Do you recommend it as a reading to somebody who finds pitch hard? I can noticed there is a pitch, and it ends there. Which one? no clue…

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#218

I have read the summary then jumped to the parts that I am interested in, that is the training procedure (mainly chapter 4). Although part of the procedure requires feedback (mainly when training on production), it is still useful to self train. Some part of the training concerns explanation of pitch accent, which we have done in this discussion so this can be skipped but there is still interesting facts and suggestions about improving perception. To sum it up, it is useful to understand pitch accent and how to train but depending on your goal it is not necessary to read everything (and it is not too technical except for some statistical analysis which is not necessary to understand the main ideas). And the appendix contains interesting resources such as the slides used in the training, examples of quizzes, … So it is a good start to devise your own training method.

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#219

Thank you. It looks like something worth a time, when there is some for it.

Maybe it will help me to get first “click” on this pitch stuff :hugs:

#220

Btw: anybody else is interested in content of that paper but have no time to read it? I will be doing some notes anyway, so I can try to present some most interesting part in shorter way to you.

Obviously I am biased so I will find some kinds of information more interesting than others, but I consider being truthful as a virtue so I will try to keep that bias in check to best of my might.

It will likely take over 2 weeks as a side project. Making more readable note will not take much of extra time if any.

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#221

So I’m reading “Scripting Japan - orthography, variation, and the creation of meaning in written Japanese” by Wesley C. Robertson (phenomenal book btw, read it if you can).

Certain Japanese authors (not all) would mark “non-native prosody” or to convery “a たどたどしい" (awkward, halting, or stumbling) image” with katakana. Many more would just just use katakana to illustrate bad Japanese in general.

It was quite a controversy in Japan when a morning show used katakana to mark Miss Naomi Osaka’s speech instead of standard Japanese because of many… implications.

It’s written like this:

ウレシイトキンチョウシテタジャナイ

Instead of this:

うれしいと緊張してたじゃない

There’s also manga with a foreigner struggling with Japanese in Japan and her speech evolved from ワタシ to わたし or 私 when her Japanese improved.

Pitch accent alone wouldn’t graduate you to become わたし/私, or according some native Japanese, nothing ever would. But without it, you are sure to stay at a ワタシ level.

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Transitive - Intransitive Verbs - Grammar Discussion
#222

I think Japan have very Polish definition of nationality: you can’t become Polish. Since you nationality is culture you grow up in, and your heritage. We will welcome you and treat even as if you would be one of us, but you will keep on missing simple references so…

I heard before that gaijin will never become Japanese person since it is impossible to learn on deep emotional and philosophical level what does it mean to “lose face” for example.

So it looks like much deeper issue than just Japanese/accent.

How much understanding of Japanese I need to maximise the utility of reading this book? Looks interesting… On Gods sake: too many thing looks interesting…

#223

That makes a lot of sense! I figured that’s why I saw this sentence in my immersion (from Saiki):

私ハ ココノ館長ノ マイケル･スコフィールドダ

If you listen to the audio, I think it’ll make sense why they used katakana xD:
https://voca.ro/1mfsksPdojnm

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#224

Oh pretty accessible, it’s in English anyway. Some parts are written in blowhard aCadEmIc speech but in general, it’s pretty understandable.

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#225

I don’t mind academic language but this is putting me to sleep:

“Even if one cannot afford travel to a foreign country, technological advances like voice-over internet protocol software”

They mean: “(e.g., Skype)”

xD

Are they paid per word or something?

#226

Btw: thanks for share this kind of stuff. :hugs:

1 Like
#227

Ever since I stumbled upon Dogens youtube channel I have been interested in pitch accent and have considered becoming a Patreon. Since I don’t have a steady income I can’t become a Patreon. I find his explanations on subscribers Japanese very helpful and his comedy sketches are funny too.
But other than that, my pitch accent studies have been just to repeat what the native speakers says during shadowing and by that I mean I repeat what miss Nihongo no Mori says in her N1 lessons. I literally use her just for listening practice and shadowing along with a few other youtube channels and anime/dramas. I’m nowhere near N1 grammar hahaha I found a WaniKani add-on that shows pitch accent during reviews and lessons, just visualizing the pattern and hearing the audio play helps me notice the pitch and makes me try harder.
I also think that pitch accent is important to at least notice if one can’t produce it in their speech. As you said, if one is not careful, one can sound a bit wonky even though they can be understood from the context. And also, if you are trying to achieve fluency, in my humble opinion, pitch plays a big role in sounding native. Just like with English. US, UK, and Australian English have different accents and pronounce some words differently, I have been told that I mix American and English pronunciation sometimes. It’s what happens when you are exposed to both at the same time I guess.

Have fun studying and good luck! :smiley::smiley:

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#228

I recently found that Japanese - The Spoken Language is a respected textbook for beginners that not only introduces linguistic terms slowly over time, but also shows pitch accent for entire sentences!! This makes it a good resource even for me, because verified examples of sentence-level pitch are so hard to find!

The only drawback is that the book is entirely in romaji, as is common with any academic work of linguistics. While this is not academic per se, it comes from a linguistic academic, so it’s not surprising. But if you can get past this, it seems like an excellent series and I’m planning on going over it myself :smiley:

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#229

That academic romanji standard gave me cancer.

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#230

That I mentioned it, or that it happens to be the standard?

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#231

It’s academic standard to write everything in Romanji. In theory, it’s meant to be more accessible but in practice, it’s a headache to read when you are not fluent in Romanji.

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#232

I feel like we should “translate” to proper 漢字 and post online somehow…

I hate ロマジ sentences slightly more than 振り仮名… both seem to hinder me more than they help…

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#233

That would be amazing! Just worried about copyright stuff, but if something anonymously pops up on the internet… :wink:

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#234

Yeah — my ethics are holding me back on this one, but frustrating when they ロマジ all over something useful! ^,-

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#235

Dropping this link because it seems that no one else has

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