Potential - Mirareru vs Mieru

Grammar Points
#1

I was taking a peek at the [Potential] grammar point here: https://www.bunpro.jp/grammar_points/132

The first example sentence is あの山が 見られますか which Bunpro translates as “Can you see that mountain over there?” While this is technically true, I used to get laughed at for using “mirareru” this way. I’ve since had several Japanese folks explain to me that while “mirareru” can translate as “can see”, it’s more like “being allowed to see” or “being allowed to watch” or “can make yourself watch”.

Like, if you’re 16, you can physically see an R-rated movie (e.g. “mieru”), you could sneak into the theater and watch it, but technically you’re not allowed to watch it (e.g. “mirarenai”). If something is so awful that you must turn away - like a car crash or a scary movie - then that’s “mirarenai”. But “mirareru” has nothing to do with whether you have the physical ability with your eyes. Is the TV off? Is it nighttime and dark? Is there a blinding fog? Are you Stevie Wonder? Those conditions are all “mienai”.

So, the sentence: あの山が 見られますか - That seems to me that the question is: “Can you bring yourself/are you able to muster the effort to look at that mountain over there?” And that seems like a weird question to ask. If it was “Can you watch a horror movie?”, then “mirareru”. But “can you see that mountain?”, I think that needs to be “mieru”.

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#2

Maybe I am :sunglasses:

 

(great point & examples btw)

#3

I finally listened to the audio, and realized it says “miemasu ka”, which is right. In reviews, the SRS will accept both “miemasu” and “miraremasu”. What horrors happened on that mountain that someone asks if you can bring yourself to look? WHAT HAPPENED UP THERE?!

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#4

Not sure this is entirely correct. Was literally just taught in a Japanese class (in Japan, I’m at a Japanese university at the moment) about the grammatical differences between 見える and 見られる. They started by explaining that 見える is not volitional, and only denotes that something can be seen (naturally coming into sight, like 聞こえる for something that can be heard but you aren’t trying to hear), and then went on to discuss using potential 見られる to indicate deliberate attention as a corollary. Granted, classes and textbooks don’t always have the final word on real life usage, but I’ve also got sentences in my flashcard deck (one of which I know for certain I came across in the wild from a native source) that pretty clearly indicate normal potential usage:

新宿で今黒澤の映画が見られます。
海の中では様々な生き物が見られます。
彼女の水着姿も見られるしな！

And I’ve used it numerous times myself on HelloTalk, etc. without having been corrected (in posts that were otherwise corrected). So perhaps this is more contextual than it seems.

Regardless, 見えます in the audio would change the nuance of the sentence given that it does not indicate volition. Or at least so goes my current understanding.

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