I like the suggestion from @Kai.
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@seanblue While making the orange nuance hints separate from the current hint cycle is something that we might be able to add in the future, we do not want to overcrowd or overcomplicate the review page any more than we have to. Perhaps when we streamline the settings page, this is an option that we could add.
@Kai Just to be clear, are you suggesting that the orange text (nuance/additional information) be added to the fourth choice in the hint cycle or the second? Cheers!
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The way I read @Kaiās suggestion was that the āgrammar pointā was what Kai called hint/orange text. Although I canāt be sure that is what he meant. I agree with that suggestion if that is what Kai meant.
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Sorry, the only change Iām suggesting is to add a 4th cycle with absolutely nothing in it.
I donāt see a need to reinvent the wheel here 
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Well, if you set Review English to āHideā in your settings, it will not show anything under the Japanese sentence unless it has orange text/nuance/additional information associated with it. We were wondering if it might be better to combine the orange text with one of the other two cycles in the hint (under the direct translation of just the grammar point or under the full sentence translation) rather than adding an additional cycle.
Ideally, the user would be able to choose:
Option #1 (Current):
- Orange text
- Orange text + Translated answer
- Orange text + Full translation
Option #2:
- Nothing
- Orange text + Translated answer
- Orange text + Full translation
Option #3:
- Nothing
- Orange text
- Orange text + Translated answer
- Orange text + Full translation
Option #4:
- Nothing
- Translated answer
- Orange text + Translated answer
- Orange text + Full translation
I think Iād personally prefer #4 the most, but itās hard to say without actually getting a chance to try it; maybe Iād actually prefer #3.
I also think #2 would be preferable to #1, but again I doubt I can say for certain unless I try it out.
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I think the best choice would be to have hints that reflect literal translations better. Most of the confusion happens when trying to guess between different āenglishā meanings.
This type of translation where the literal meaning is given is a much better way of teaching. In saying that, grammar point that have a literal meaning, the hint should be along the lines of that literal meaning make new, if we learn that it means replace, buy new, freshen up, weāre actually learning the wrong thing that only fits in that specific context.
@Kai Thank you for writing out these options! Looks like we might just have to do some experimenting. @Anthropos888, @seanblue, and @MissDagger Thank you for your insights! Cheers!
@Asher Agreed! We would like to start adding alternative translations that are better suited to the grammar point, the nuance that it may carry and the context that it falls in. Cheers!
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I think it would be good to both have a literal translation and a natural translation. Iāve definitely noticed that if I have trouble with a grammar point here on BP, it is more often because it happens to use a more literal translation structure that makes my mind do mental gymnastics for both the Japanese and the English (instead of just the Japanese). But at the same time, sometimes natural translation takes it very far from the Japanese words/grammar actually used and therefore makes it very hard to understand how it got there; so I wouldnāt want to lose literal translations.
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@Pushindawood If you guys just started testing having the hint and translated answer appear at once (since all my reviews suddenly did that), I can already say I hate it. When I click for a hint I get so much text suddenly thrown in my face, both blue and orange and it is distracting instead of helpful. Iād rather go back to the old system of always showing the orange than having this. (Although I would still prefer being able to cycle into first orange, then orange + translated answer, and lastly orange + full sentence translation.)
@MissDagger Thank you for your feedback! We would like to experiment with a number of hint shuffling options before we settle on one that works well for everyone. We hear you loud and clear and will continue to tweak and change how and when hints display in reviews. Cheers!
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@omegazion, @seanblue, @Kai, @Moogle, @Asher, @MissDagger, @Anthropos888
We have changed how hint cycling works on Bunpro. The order the hints appear in is as follows:
- Nothing (Hide)
- Translated answer (Hint)
- Full translation (Show)
- Full translation + Orange text (More)
The orange text can include translations, nuance, context, or just some additional information about the grammar point, so we thought it best to move it to the last option.
We have also added ātenseā tags ([casual] and [polite]) to the input field rather than pairing them with the orange text.
Please let us know what you think! Cheers!
3 Likes
Unfortunately, I think some more bugs were introduced. I clicked āShow Englishā once during this review session, and now itās stuck on full English. āMinimalā shows, but does nothing - every question is showing full English. Even if I got back to Main Menu, and go back to Reviews, Iām seeing full English. (And I think no Orange hints, but I have so many self study questions that maybe I just didnāt see any from Bunproā¦?)
Iām liking it so farā¦ Iām finding myself hitting backspace probably more than I should because Iām encountering a lot of grammar where there are a number of possible answers, but I tend to be very level-headed with that kind of thing and only hit backspace if I absolutely know that what I put could have been acceptable in another context. Iām not the kind of person who says āahh yeah but I knew that really so Iām gonna give it to myselfā because that kind of thing is a bit naughty 
I notice a couple of people have mentioned bugsā¦ I havenāt seen any but will let you know if I do.
Thanks, Iām really liking the change! The extra cycle makes me wish there was a keybind to navigate backwards even more now, though 
(Shift+Spacebar is convenient enough on a PC keyboard, but in the interest of ease-of-use on mobile, maybe , and . could also be keybound as a pair to cycle forwards and backwards.)
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Great, I like both changes. First I thought the new placement of the tense tag is a bug, but itās really a good position now. I never read the āpoliteā etc. at the end of the yellow hint.
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If itās not too much of a technical hurdle, I think making the hint/reveal cycle fully customizable would be ideal (with some convenient defaults). Hereās what I mean:
If I donāt care about āHideā and want the orange hint to show up last, I could make my cycle:
- Translated answer
- Full translation
- Full translation + Orange text
But someone else might make their cycle:
- None
- Orange text
- Translated answer + Orange text
- Full translation (no orange text)
- Full translation + Orange text
Basically, anybody could create a list of custom answer/hint combinations and put them in whatever order they want. Again, if itās not a technical hurdle, I think this might be best.
5 Likes
Yeah, I think some customization here would be the ideal solution.
Itās still incredibly important that the default cycle is thoroughly thought-through (so all of this discussion is great), but hopefully it can be made fully customizable, or maybe there could be a handful of carefully-selected presets to choose from.
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Yeah, a middle ground approach might be best. Perhaps one where the user could customize the order of preset options (an option being a single hint level) and be allowed to exclude some entirely.
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@seanblue
@Asher
@Kai
@s1212z
@matt_in_mito
@MissDagger
@omegazion
@Moogle
@monkeytunes
@Anthropos888
What do you think about this way of adding context?
3 Likes