Big Vocab Update! 27/03 - Hints!

This is for the vocab section, I believe. Though there is some overlap with vocab and grammar point, this update looks like it’s specifically for the vocab sections. However it does seem like it works a lot more like the grammar practice now which might be what your picking up on. :thinking:

This is just my best guess with the information I’m seeing here.

That’s kind of an insensitive comment considering everything Bunpro does is tailored to meeting the needs of the community and not towards lining their own pockets.

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I just tried some n5 vocab lessons out just to see what it’s like (it was very cool!). But it seems to have put 7 of the 8 items into the adept srs stage, and 1 of them into the seasoned srs stage. Is this an intended behavior? In the vocab deck settings, it’s set to put new items in srs stage 0

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lol I just checked WK for the first time today and ahh man, they implemented those awful updates that take away keyboard shortcuts. Just awful. Hopefully someone’s working on a browser extension that brings back the layout and shortcuts, though I’ll have to install that on all the computers I use.

EDIT: Actually, the updates aren’t as bad as I was expecting. Taking away the timeout is a great update.

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As far as I understand it, there is no setting currently available where it will show you only the English translation without showing the “nuance”, by which I mean the lightbulb element. I think that’s the right terminology for grammar. The nuance can provide too much info and it can make it feel kind of like you’re just memorizing the nuance tip rather than how the grammar functions. As such, just showing the English hint or English sentence without showing the nuance may be better as it gives you a bit to go on but its different for each sentence so you’re still thinking about the grammar itself. Though it also has negatives in that it may cause you to focus on matching the grammar point to the English grammar rather than the context of the sentence.

There are pros and cons to having the nuance before the English and vice versa so I think it comes down to the individual which works best for them. Thus, it would be nice if you could switch between the nuance being first or last. Or even better, I think it would be ideal if you actually separated the English and nuance into separate hints that acted independently with separate settings.

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Exactly what @hexashadow13 said, though I think they switched the “nuance” and “hint” meanings in relation to how they’re used now.

I’m used to just seeing the English word/phrase that’s missing from the sentence (which I think is now called “nuance”?). The “hint”, which before the update was usually the last thing you would see when toggling, was something I relied on only if I was stuck or was getting a “can you say it another way” message :slight_smile:

Now it’s the first thing that shows up which is way too much information for me. I tried toggling the Review English settings, but that only changes whether you see only the Hint or both the Hint and the English word, where what we want is to be able to only see the English word when the review first comes up.

I hope that makes sense :slight_smile:

Edit: now if the Hint was in Japanese that would make it much more interesting, but as it stands it’s just what we used to see last showing up as first which is why it can throw people off.

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I love the improvements overall. I am very glad you are attempting to make it more natural to make the monolingual transition.

I am not sure If like the new order of hints. Will have to experiment and see if I like it. It may be beneficial to have the order that they appear as an option itself.

Either way.

ありがとうございます☀️

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Just my 2 cents but:

I totally get everyone’s hangups with the new ordering of the hints/English translation.

However why we made this choice will make a lot more sense when there are more Japanese hints available. Especially for Grammar.

^ With that being said, as always, we are watching all the feedback related to this closely.
Any ideas and feedback are always welcome!

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Personally, I don’t see myself using the Japanese hints. It all feels like a bit much for what I’m trying to do with the study, which is to learn specifically what type of grammar particle goes there. I usually read the sentence in Japanese, then read the English to confirm what I read was correct. Then I’ll try and figure out what needs to go in the blank.

Having the extra hint or the hint in Japanese, that doesn’t do anything for me. The way it was was fine, and the sooner that option becomes available again the better. Right now I feel like I’m actively avoiding half the screen with my eyes 'cause I don’t wanna see the hint, but I do want to see the sentence in English.

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Just wanna add a positive comment:

I just requested Japanese hints for grammar a couple of days ago and bam they are suddenly promised. Once those are implemented I am certain I will prefer having the Japanese nuance displayed first.

I don’t do vocab on this site but the update looks great for those that do.

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This exactly is the problem. I don’t want my eyes to gravitate towards this English and then figure out the needed grammar point just by unconsciously remembering its hint. If English and the non-lightbulb hint can be turned off, I don’t see why this can’t be turned off either

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I really enjoy the hint system, it allows for more japanese practice. my only issue is the hints do use words that I do not know yet. would there a way to be able to click the word and it gives a brief definition of it?

Take for example if I did not know the word “後で” or afterwards, when i click it it only shows me the furigana, and the kanji but not the meaning so I’d see a box saing 後で:あとで but no meaning for the word. it’s a small nitpick, but maybe adding a link to the word’s vocab page (if it has one) would save me a trip or two to the ol’ 辞書.

here’s a full hint from one of my reviews:
2枚の板を使って雪に覆われた坂を滑り降りるスポーツ。
I’m not sure of what the kanji “覆” means, and the hiragana does not help much. so i go to click on it only to get just the 覆 kanji with お hiragana as an explaination. the rest of the box is empty. why not use a bit of that space to add a <spoiler english </spoiler (purposely broke the code so it can show otherwise it’s just not shoing anythin lol.) answer?

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Great update for vocab but the change to grammar is extremely counter intuitive.

The hint explaining the grammar structure should be the final hint if you can’t figure it out from context. With the hint always there you are just rote memorising the grammar point with its english description instead of engaging with the Japanese.

At the very least this should have an option in settings to be turned off.

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I really liked it when they created bunpro cloze to study vocabulary, but the problem is that in no update did they include bunpro cloze in the app…

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This is a very good end goal, can these type hints themselves be converted to Japanese as well? Maybe I have missed it. But as of now they just show up in English.

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I’m also not a fan of the change in order. I preferred the structure hint last, being first “gives it away”.

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I am not sure programattically if we are able to make things within the hints clickable (programming isn’t my field), but I agree that it would be ideal! It would be a great opportunity to learn related words.

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Hi! by default the full “hints” are shown.

Thanks to @Daru , i found the right setting… Review English: Hide is what i was looking for.

But, could we have a separate setting for grammar and for vocabulary ?
Grammar isn’t my “cup of tea”, so i really like the full hints in order to know what i should look for,
On the other hand, for vocabulary, only minimal hints (japanese only) is really what i would like.

Any way to separate : hints for grammar / hints for vocabulary settings ?

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What is a [special verb]?

Hi everyone, and thanks for the feedback so far!

While this change to the hint system really only applies to the vocab at the moment, it has also impacted the order of prompts sitewide. We have tested several orders in the past, and they have all come with their own issues. In deciding the current order, we were thinking mainly about what reflects the information that is most important to remember about a grammar point, and is respectful of the user’s time.

Initially, the grammar nuance hints were written with the goal of being memorized. This may seem like it is a bad thing or perhaps counter intuitive, but our hope is in fact that these hints are being memorized, as they contain small pieces of crucial information about specific grammar points that help identify them from others. This was done to combat ‘synonym hell’, something that has been a big pain point of many users for years, due to quite a few similar grammar points being unable to be distinguished purely based on the Japanese sentence, or even the translation. In this case, students would often memorize the sentence that the grammar point was seen in, rather than how to use the grammar point itself. This is primarily from where we decided that if anything was going to be memorized, a small piece of information that actually reflects a certain grammar point’s usage would be far more beneficial.

With the English hint, or showing the English sentence as a whole, it still leaves many potential answers for the vast majority of grammar points. Although it is definitely still possible to solve the questions this way, it is usually just a case of users cycling through all the ways they know how to say something until they pick the right one (data that we can see when writing/accepting alternative answers). This approach is not ideal as it can lead to even more confusion with things like ‘why is this grammar point not accepted here’, when the real answer is ‘actually several answers may be equally correct, but as this is a grammar srs service, naturally we must force all grammar points to be practiced equally’.

We are discussing internally about the user settings and how we can change them to allow a wider audience to choose what suits them best, but from a learning perspective, we do recommend that the hint be the primary ‘go to’ when learning, as they are designed to reinforce what one already knows about each and every grammar point.

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