Feedback Request: Kanji Answer

Yeah I’m moreso in the camp where I’d be fine with the answer defaulting to its kanji state (if available), with the recent great improvements the site has made I feel like things of those nature should get the priority at this time. Interesting idea though nonetheless!

5 Likes

Agreed. When I text friends, I usually use kana input and there’s definitely times where I rely on auto-correct to tell me the right kanji.

I think it would be fine to show the kanji after you’ve answered – you could show it when you scroll through alternate answers while pressing space bar.

4 Likes

@Merocor @ccookf @MZa @Adarain @BORN2PEEPEE @FredKore

Sorry for the biased poll. I have added a second one to the original post.

As always we really appreciate the feedback and discussion. It helps give us a better idea on how optimally implement (or abandon) any given idea.

5 Likes

No worries man! I only recognized it cause I took a statistics and research couse this past term. I think you’ll get a better idea of what the users think with those additional responses.

Love the website still. On a near 30 day streak so far.

3 Likes

Yes, kanji really should be accepted. Especially for N2 and up.

2 Likes

Welcome to the streak club! Enjoy your stay, see you at 365 for your fancy new badge :wink:

2 Likes

100% what ccookf said. I know the kanji from Wanikani, I know what it means, but I don’t make the association because I keep seeing the grammar point in hiragana. Plus there are those “usually written in kana” deals where the kanji isn’t used, so it would be super helpful to be able to see in reviews what the grammar point or entire sentence is supposed to look like kanji-wise once you’ve gotten it correct.

6 Likes

I still think kanji input is a bad idea. Showing the kanji after enter is pressed is fine, but kanji input via a typical Japanese IME actively sabotages the learning process.

For example there’s a grammar point for の下で “under”. If kanji input is accepted, we can type at least した, しも, or もと to write the correct kanji. If bunpro couldn’t verify that we correctly type もと, in my mind it would be a failure as a learning tool. It would reinforce the wrong answer instead of correcting us.

It happens at lower levels too, e.g. there’s an N5 grammar point for 好き. Because this is often read ずき I can type that too to get my phone to suggest 好き. But in the test questions it’s never read ずき and bunpro should not accept and reinforce it.

Accepting kanji is like accepting fuzzy answers or answers with typos. It’s like manually marking answers as good because in one’s mind the answer was “close enough”. It breaks the SRS.

I’ve previously also pointed out that kanji suggestions when using a Japanese input method can give away mistakes too without giving bunpro a chance to score accordingly; for example when we know the kanji but it’s not showing up in the suggestions for some reason, we can infer we made a mistake. IMHO this is more of a self-discipline thing but it’s something to be aware of.

12 Likes

As long as you give the option to continue typing in Hiragana I don’t really mind, as others said, IME autocomplete might hint you the answer, but to each their own, with their quest for Japanese enlightenment.

On the other hand, if the addition of this feature is gonna delay other cool features / content in the super secret to-do list, then I’d say “Don’t”

4 Likes

As others have stated, it would allow a bit too much fuzziness in my eyes to still make the SRS work correctly in reinforcing the right grammar. If this didn’t take considerable amount of re-working I wouldn’t really mind, as each person is free to learn / use it in the way they want, but I’d rather see some other suggestions / features implemented instead of this. (I do however agree with the showing of Kanji in the answer field after submitting!)

5 Likes

One thing I will note is that a few months ago I failed to recognize the た方がいい grammar point since I always see it as たほうがいい on bunpro. I think the “I would prefer hiragana input with kanji in the answer field after submitting.” option would be good as it lets people who do not read the sentences also have a chance to see it with kanji.

An obvious solution right now is to just read the example sentences, but personally I usually avoid the example sentences since they spoil the SRS for me and for simple grammar points I don’t usually go back very often to look over them.

4 Likes

Maybe you could roll out a little experimental Kanji acceptance on some higher tier questions to let people try it out and see if it’s a good or a bad?

2 Likes

I think showing the answer in Kanji (in the cases where that is the common way to spell it) would be good regardless of whether you implement Kanji input.

4 Likes

I am also still not in favor of Kanji Input, and have actually come up with even more reasons to oppose it. However, I am still not opposed to showing answers in Kanji and think this could add value without any drawbacks.

The arguments against Kanji input have already been discussed at length in this and the other thread, so I’ll just summarize them, and add a few new ones below:

  1. Correct Kanji are often independent from the correct reading, so allowing Kanji answers would produce unnecessary false positives (answers with incorrect readings but correct Kanji)
    a) If you forget the reading but remember the Kanji compounds, you could write the Kanji out individually, in a disjoint manner (e.g.: なか + こころ instead of ちゅうしん(中心)).
    b) There are many ways to unintentionally produce the correct Kanji, but with the wrong reading, no matter how hard you try to avoid this. (e.g.: のしたで instead of the correct のもと(下)で)
    c) Adding on to my old argument from 1.b), sometimes it’s not only easy to unintentionally produce wrong readings, but (nearly) impossible to avoid. Consider when the Kanji is directly attached to the noun, but the answer field is only the Kanji part (e.g.: N上N下N中). If the answer field only had the Kanji part, the user trying to input answers with Kanji would basically be forced to write out うえ、した、なか instead of the correct じょう、か、ちゅう/じゅう. So the user would in these cases have to intentionally write out the wrong thing to produce the correct Kanji.
  2. Marking answers with incorrect readings (whether they be intentional, unintentional, or required) as correct reinforces bad habits.
  3. IMEs would be required to input the Kanji, but IMEs’ auto-complete features make it impossible to grade your answers without bias
    a) As you type the answer, if the Kanji don’t show up, you now know that you typed in the wrong reading, which gives you the ability to revise your answer instead of getting marked wrong and letting the SRS do its job.
    b) Adding on a new argument to 3.a), after writing the same grammar pattern a few times, autocomplete options based on your typing history start popping up, so if you start typing out the answer correctly, the full answer based on your typing history would promptly show up before you are finished. Therefore, you would only really be practicing the beginning of the pattern, rather than the full pattern.
  1. Implementing Kanji input would be time consuming and diverts efforts that could have otherwise been put to use elsewhere.

To put my perspective bluntly, I am against implementing a feature that creates unnecessary false positives, undermines the efficacy of the SRS, makes unbiased self-grading nearly impossible, and reinforces bad habits, especially when implementing this feature takes time away from other projects that would definitely add value to the platform instead of potentially degrading it.

13 Likes

Ya and this is a grammar learning site, why focus on anything but grammar

2 Likes

@nekoyama Thank you both for in depth replies. And thank you to everyone who filled out the poll(s) and commented.

It is clear from that implementing kanji answers isn’t the right choice. It does seem to be the case that everyone agrees that at the least, seeing the answer in kanji form after submitting would be good, as it will help cement the mental relation between the grammar and the kanji.

Bunpro is really lucky to have a great community of learners who are passionate about making Bunpro better and are willing to voice their opinions.

Being able to offer up an idea and get feedback on it helps us a lot. Even if an idea is shut down, it is still worth making the post because it stops us spending time on that idea, allowing us to tackle more important features and changes.

Thank you :heart: :bowing_man:

19 Likes

I would love some kanji input. I’m using bunpro on my phone, and that’s a nice way to slowly increasing my typing speed using the kana swipe keyboard. Quite often, the kana are automatically converted to kanji so I have to manually go back and type again.

On pc/Mac, I don’t really mind, for my use case it won’t really make a difference ^^

1 Like

Another thing to consider is that not all answers need kanji.

Why would I type a grammar point in kanji when most Japanese people type it out in hiragana?

Not many people are typing out 居る or 鉛筆 lol

3 Likes

In my opinion if you’re typing out the kanji then you already know the kanji reading. I like to see the hiragana so when I think of the grammar point I connect it to the phonetic reading. Otherwise my brain will go grammar-> kanji-> kanji reading-> answer.

1 Like

I would love this. For whatever reason, I’ve always found it awkward and confusing that I couldn’t enter Kanji, probably because that’s generally what I’m doing elsewhere ( with the exception of Wanikani, but it makes sense there).

1 Like