たら - Grammar Discussion

if・after・when

Structure

  • Verb[ ] ・ら
  • Noun + だった・ら
  • なAdj + だった・ら
  • いAdj[かった] ・ら

[conditional phrase + たら + one-time result or particular situation]

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When a sentence like this has two “if’s” (もし~たら)how does it change the sentence? Can one be left out? Are both needed?

もし食べに行きたかったら、行こう。

Edit: Apologies it seems this is a grammar point i’m yet to learn もし If… [for emphasis]

Maggie Sensei had a good quote: “You can omit もし ( = moshi) if you think the condition is more certain or likely to happen”.

I believe I’ve seen もし able to be attached to most conditional types (たら・ば・と・なら) but I’ve never seen もし alone (nor do the example exhibit it) but the conditional can be alone. I tend to add it when speaking just for sake of clarity but MS’s quote makes me realize I’m ignoring the nuance she mentioned.

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I see! So もし is an optional addition that emphases further uncertainty to whether the condition is true or not. Thank you s1212z! (^O^)/

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I have a problem with one of the example sentences.
ゲームをしたかったら、友達の家に行ってください
If you want to play videogames, go to your friend’s house.

Why is it したかったら and not したら ? I don’t see any indication of past in the english translation…

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@Gotty Hey! This is the たい form (want) + たら (if). If you were to just use したら the sentence would be closer to “If you play videogames, go to your friend’s house.” However, we want “if you want to play…” here. したい’s inflections are very similar to an い-adjectives, so we first conjugate する (to do) to したい (want to do) and then finally conjugate for たら to get したかったら. Hope this helps. Cheers!

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Thanks !

@mrnoone Since the point of this example sentence is たら, I think you should specify the required verb as してみる instead of する.

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@seanblue Nice spot! I have updated the required verb to display してみる instead of する. Cheers!

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Actually… I have a similar question about もし食べに行たかったら 、行こう。

I thought たい was for your own desires, not someone else’s. Why isn’t this もし食べに行ってあげたら 、行いこう。

@Innov8d たい belongs to a group of “personal” adjectives, that is used to describe the speaker’s/writer’s wishes/desires (first person) or the listener’s wishes/desires (second person). If you want to describe someone else’s wish/desire (third person) you have to use verb[stem ] + たがる or indirect speech, verb[stem] + たいと思う.

てほしい is used for when you want someone else to do something.

行ってあげる means “to go for someone else’s benefit” and would not work in this situation. Cheers!

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Ahhhh… I had missed the second person aspect of たい! And yeah, I had meant 行きたがる, not あげる. :disappointed:

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In the sentence 部屋(へや)の掃除(そうじ)がまだ だったら 、まずそれをしなくてはいけない I’m having trouble telling how you identify which form to use. It gives the form for verbs, nouns, な-adjectives and い-adjectives, but the immediately preceding word is まだ, which I understood to be an adverb.
That said, I’ve just looked it up and wiktionary suggests it can also be a noun while jisho.org says it’s also a な-adjective. Is that the role it plays in this sentence?

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@CrisH

Yep! Since まだ is referring to the 掃除 (cleaning) being unfinished as opposed to a verb being in an incomplete state, we attach the copula だ. Bunpro gives [だ] as a hint for this sentence and since the たら conjugation for だ is だったら, this is your best choice. Cheers!

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In the explanatory text for this grammar point it shows the い-adjective with かった in brackets, presumably to show that the い is taken off, but this isn’t (yet) in the structure legend. I think it might help to add it so it’s clear that the い is dropped for this use.

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Done! :+1:

Thanks for the feedback!

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Hate to be a bother a third time on the same point, but I’ve fallen down again at the same sentence as my first query. Different problem, though - maybe reflects a growing understanding, if I’m lucky!

部屋(へや)の掃除(そうじ)がまだ だったら 、まずそれをしなくてはいけない
So it’s the use of だ in the positive that’s confused me. There’s a grammar point about not having done something yet and it uses the negative continuative. Is it just a different construct when it’s hypothetical? I would have expected it to be something 〜ませんでしたら.

Also, the irregular verbs can be a little difficult to interpret - what does だ mean? Isn’t it like “it is”, which would make this literally “If it is room cleaning”?

@CrisH Hey! I think that the confusion stems from まだ and not だ. まだ itself means “still” or “yet” but can imply: “not yet,” even when there are no negative verbs present. In this particular sentence, the speaker (most likely a mother speaking with a child) places focus on まだ with the copula だ (which you correctly guessed to mean “it is”). Therefore, the sentence would be something more like “If cleaning your room is not yet (done)…” In essence, you can say まだだ to mean “not yet,” and conjugate the copula to だったら to state “if that is the case…” I hope this helps. Cheers!

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Yeah, I think it’s clicked…it’s “If [your] room-cleaning is not yet [done]”, where “your” and “done” are implied by context, right?

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I’m having trouble getting what “from when” and “just when” mean in English here.

from when = the result will happen after the condition happens, but not before.

just when = the result will happen at the specific time the condition happens, but not before or after.

Is that right? I’m not really sure that fits all the examples.