Feedback - Suggested Improvements/Feature Request

Bunpro
#512

This is inspired by a YouTube video, but I can’t find it, unfortunately.

The idea is to cram newly learned grammar points (GPs). It often happens to me that I remember what a GP means, how use it/conjugate it, everything, except how it goes. As in, which letters I need to use. I know I need to add “as ~ as possible,” but I forgot how it goes. Is it なろく? なるべき? Etc. (it’s なるべく). And I would really use a way to get over those initial failures. And the Cram feature doesn’t let me be as specific and doesn’t really work in a way I’d want it to.

What I would like is for me to be able to pick which GPs I want to practice. Any number of them, thought this method doesn’t work if you only pick a few. So let’s say I pick 5, all of which I’ve just learned. This new feature would present them first in Japanese, for instance (ideally it would be random in which language it show them first). All five at once, in one column. The second column would leave room for me to write in, but it’s optional if I do. I.e. I would decide if I’m right, not the site (like in Anki).
When I’m done writing in, or just thinking without writing, I would click “Done,” when the site would show the right answers in English in a third column, and then give me the option to click “Correct” or “Wrong.” I would only click “Correct” if I got all 5 right. If not, then I would repeat the exercise. If I’m right about all five, the site would then put the English meaning in the first column. Then I would have to guess all five again, but E->J. And the whole process would repeat and as for as long as I wanted it to.

Or if you just made it so that Cram feature let’s you pick which GPs you can study, lmao, probably easier to set up than this, but on the other hand, it might make memorizing sentences instead of grammar easier.

1 Like
#513

Regarding the similar grammar points: The best idea I have so far is to do what you’ve already done here and there. There are already those orange descriptions in lessons which sometimes tell you “X is a more formal version of Y.” Which is great, but for all those youna, souna, mitaina etc. ones for instance, that’s not all there is to it. It’s also about visual cues etc. But some of them share these traits, so I still struggle with differentiating them. I think the general idea of orange descriptions in lessons is good, but the descriptions of the differences need to be more specific somehow? Or maybe incorporate examples that really show how and and why exactly you can’t use one of them in one context and have to use the other.

Alternatively, since this might be too long for orange descriptions, I would maybe, in the orange descriptions, link the best resource you can find which explains as clearly as possible and with examples, the differences between the similar GPs. (And not in the “Reading” section, because, knowing myself, I’d be too lazy to visit it, lmao - but also put it there)

Edit: This is, imo, how it should look ideally: http://nihongolearner.blogspot.com/2013/01/vs-tokoro-vs-bakari.html

3 Likes
#514

@Nenad Thank you so much for your insight! We will see what we can do about including more specific descriptions of the subtle differences between similar grammar points. We also like your idea of adding the additional reading links to the hints that appear in reviews. Cheers!

2 Likes
#515

image

Not sure if this is consistent through all the quizzes of the grammar point, but wouldn’t it be better to include the verb in the quiz, even if it isn’t conjugated?
Knowing that it isn’t conjugated is still important after all :thinking:

5 Likes
#516

Thank you for the response. Speaking strictly from what I personally would prefer: I think it’d be good if similar grammar points could have their own section like “study” and “cram”. There, we could compare the points more in depth, maybe even have a review mode which tests the specific nuances of grammar point “families”. There’s something about comparing similar items side by side that makes it stick, kind of like how a lot of us nailed the difference between 牛 and 午 just by looking at them side by side.

Yes, like how you already present things, but each box would represent a “family”. So these boxes could say “however”, “despite”, “although”, “according to”, “looks like/seems like/appears like”, “can’t help”, “emphasis”.

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Not sure if this is an issue for others, but maybe include similar looking/sounding grammar points like
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or things with 上, もの, etc.

Anything lacking has to do with it not being the biggest priority right now, which i’m assuming is adding more grammar points and polishing the site. Though if I nitpick, one thing I find lacking is how these similar grammar points are thoroughly analyzed and explained, but the only place you could find it is on the forums. I think the main site would benefit greatly from @mrnoone’s explanations already on these forums. It’s probably that way to prevent cluttering the site, so maybe this would be useful in the similar grammar section?

Sorry, but I can’t think of anything on that.

I imagine rounding up all these grammar point groups would be very difficult, is there any way we could help? Maybe make a thread and we all can share the groups that give us trouble? Kind of like how information was collected in this thread? https://community.wanikani.com/t/the-nuance-thread/33759/12

Sorry if I come off as “you should make it like this and that”, these are just my personal suggestions and I’m sure there are people who have radically different and better ideas.

6 Likes
#517

Great job on running the site, actively listening to feature requests and implementing suggestions. As this thread grows past 500, I’m not sure how many requests are reasonable given BP’s resources as well as actively building N1 material, adding to current levels, etc…you guys look really busy. I’ve personally endorsed the idea of growing the listening/reading aspects this site could provide…there are some many possibilities that could make this site even more special as it continues to improve.

I’d like to see BP make more money so as many requests listed already may become a reality. In order to do so, I think BP could be better in attracting beginner learners. For those on the WK, how many times have we heard “when should I start grammar/start BP to supplement my kanji study?” or “I’m moving to Japan and I need to cram!” For individuals who need survivalist Japanese (whose primary goal is not to read novels or pass JLPT), I’d like to see BP as the PRIMARY resource with kanji study used to supplement their BP grammar study. I also imagine that beginner subscribers are likely a higher revenue source, probably more so than the intermediate/expert levelers.

Note these are not just personal requests but ideas that could campaign to early learners better (to get more subscribers ($)):

  1. Have some of your early levels in Romanji so anyone can jump in
  2. Have a platform for beginners to learn their hiragana/katakana
  3. Don’t underestimate a necessary fun factor. Beginners need a reward factor to keep the site addictive. The badge idea was great. There are so many gamers learning Japanese. Pop quizs that are timed or fill in the blank reading passages could be like “bosses” you have to defeat after each level with all sort fun badge awards. JLPT style questions would no doubt be most practical.
  4. Keep building a listening platform as this is so important for survivalists.
  5. Active grammar application so even beginner users can start to build basic conversation skills and find the fun in human interaction with natives (By “application” I mean beyond message board corrections…maybe something like the aforementioned ProBun by @xBl4ck or a place where active translations can be practiced/assessed within the framework).

Just some random thoughts but thanks for listening!

6 Likes
New User's Guide?
#518

Adding on to this, I think another good addition would be like the old WK help/about pages, where they dumb down explain things in simple, but encouraging, terms, as well as give you an idea of what you can do when you reach certain points of their service. (Having those details about when to start reading practice, what to do once you reach something, how much you can read, etc., was REALLY motivating back when I first started WK. I read that section quite often tbh x’D)

3 Likes
#519

Agreed wholeheartedly; if I’m typing or speaking, I have to know that the verb is left in 辞書形 if I want to use that grammar correctly.

So please, make me type it out :slight_smile:

Then, when they make this, they can finally have a place on the site to say what the heck 硬 means when you’re looking at grammar points!

(It means “formal”)

4 Likes
#520

Given enough time, grouping similar (or easily-confused) grammar points should be extremely trivial; all they’d have to do is examine the alternate answers each grammar point catches :stuck_out_tongue:

2 Likes
#521

Pandering to “learners” that don’t even care to learn kana is how a great resource like the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar can become an eyesore. Granted, since Bunpro is on the Internet it can be an option and it’s not as big a deal. But whenever I see a grammar resource written in romaji I’m at a loss, because I can’t figure out who the website is actually targeted towards.

6 Likes
#522

I figured I’d have dish thrown at my head for this one :open_mouth:. Undoubtedly, no one here wants/needs it and I agree, DBJG would be better without it. The idea is to get BP to be their first stop before WK; particularly to individuals who would benefit from focusing on a grammar-weighted path first. Perhaps a short pre-N5 "bunny hill"section would suffice as well (Romanji or not). Where these “learners” go from there, well, that is up to them.

1 Like
#523

Speaking from experience, when I was first learning, many several times, romaji was really a crutch I held onto as long as possible. And resources like DBJG really hurt learners, imo, for including it. Once I was forced out of it for school, was when I really actually learned kana.

2 Likes
#524

There are so many free resources for learning kana that perhaps BP should link to them, like they do with the grammar point “Readings”. :woman_shrugging:t2:

Unrelated, but this is the feedback area…new, or alternate audio samples would be welcome.

3 Likes
#525

Well, yes, first of all you should integrate related grammar into the reviews (in the “show grammar info” screen). That’s the most important place for them. As for now, when I mistake one grammar point with another during reviews, I need to leave reviews and open the grammar search. There I need to wait 30-40s for the site to load due to the horrible performance on mobile browsers. Then I need to search manually for the same grammar point from my reviews and open it in order to find the related grammar section. User friendly? 0% (besides that I love the site :wink: )

1 Like
#526

@xBl4ck and @Kai I have updated な to require the verb when answering in reviews. Cheers!

@John_Doe Thank you so much for your detailed feedback and suggestions! I really like the idea of incorporating families and @jprspereira’s nuance thread is amazing. I think that we might be able to put something like that together in the near future. As you mentioned, adding additional grammar points and polishing the site are pretty high on the priority list, but we hope that we get to these features soon. Cheers!

@s1212z Wow! Thank you for your kind words and for providing such great insight into how we can better Bunpro. We love random thoughts! We always appreciate receiving this kind of feedback as it helps us in deciding what to prioritize as we continue to build upon and improve Bunpro. Cheers!

@conan Great suggestion! Our help and about pages could use some sprucing up. Cheers!

@Momiji Thank you for your feedback! We would eventually like to incorporate a resource list that links both grammar points that appear on Bunpro as well as sites for learning other aspects of the language (Hiragana, Katakana, Kanji, Yojijukugo, onomatopoeia, etc.). Cheers!

@Anthropos888 An improved search and related grammar in reviews is near the top of our to-do list. We are sorry that we do not yet have this feature available. Cheers!

6 Likes
#527

Perhaps a short pre-N5 "bunny hill"section would suffice as well (Romanji or not)

I think thats a great idea. Depending on how its set up, maybe that could be handled with the existing Path-system. Upon registering and ones first login, the page could maybe ask you to “choose a path”, and then offer clearly marked options, like

I travel to Japan soon and need the most important conversational grammar (“Survival Path”)

I want to learn step by step, according to the JLPT and BunPro’s recommendation (“BunPro path”)

I am following a textbook… (allows selection of a textbook path)

This way, a user is quickly set up, with pathes set up already. A fun description could also help here. Afterwards, the site should automatically go to the Study site so the user can add reviews.

This should help with the critical first Session, where things NEED to go smoothly to retain users. The Website tutorial that already exists then does the rest.

I am not sold on using romaji, and would prefer linking someplaxe else for that, but I understand that it might be useful for beginners and allow you to use the famous “no prior knowledge required, get started today” marketing blurb :slight_smile:

5 Likes
#528

Wow, these are all great ideas to help a raw beginner! The paths make total sense and, you are correct, are already being built with the textbook options. Too often I’m reading that new users are intimidated to start BP which shouldn’t be the case. The smoothness to retain users is a great point.

When I first start learning years ago, I needed survival Japanese but I went into the wrong direction. I bought a kanji book and went through the vocab and writing exercises while having another crappy survival romanji book (while in hindsight, wasn’t crappy at all and gave me the most immediate help). While the kanji writing book helped build kana along some vocab and reading skills, it was really the worst place for me to start as this provided minimal help (if any) with basic communication with natives. I thought vocab building needed to be my first priority but it wasn’t true. The DBJG book was a lifesaver.

3 Likes
#529

@opgjoh These are excellent suggestions! We really like the idea of giving new users the ability to choose a path so that they can jump right into learning grammar in a way that best suits them. We will definitely see what we can do about getting this implemented. Cheers!

@s1212z Thank you for providing some details on your Japanese learning journey and what works best for you. DBJG is up there on the list of things to add to Bunpro. Cheers!

5 Likes
#530

Study mode: please show the Bunpro lesson number (e.g. N3 lesson 1: 4/10) for each grammar point. There is no clue about where the grammar point is located in study mode. So I don’t know if it is N5, N4, N3 or N2 grammar if I regularly switch the study mode level in settings after you added new content.

6 Likes
#531

I’d love to be able to switch the sound on/off during my revisions, without going all the way to the settings. It’s just a small thing, I know… '^^

4 Likes