ように・ような - Grammar Discussion

just like


  • Verb + ように + Verb/Adjective
  • Verb + ような + Noun

[Used to express similarity of someone/something to someone/something else in terms of appearance or manner of doing something]

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I was wondering, is this よう the same よう as 容? (shape/form) Because that would kind of make sense. Not sure if I would be reading too much into this though…

EDIT: Also is みたい 見たい as in wanting to see? Like someone wants to look like they swim like a fish or smth

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Hey! Unfortunately, the よう in ように・ような is 様 (yeah, like さま), so it may not really help to remember it the way you had hoped. 様 on it’s own, does mean “appearing” or “looking (like)” and it can even refer to a way or method of doing something or something’s style or form.

While みたい does look like 見たい, it actually comes from みた様 (oh, hello again). So, it would be closer to “looked in the form/style of…” Cheers!


Does そう also have something to do with 様?

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そう is thought to be either a phonetically altered 様 or taken from 相. Source


Is いっぱい宿題しゅくだいがある みたいに ことを言いっていたけど、本当ほんとうは何なにもなかった wrong? It is marked as wrong, but as far as I can tell it is a valid (though informal) alternative to ように in this context.

I realise this relates to the discussion Differences between よう、みたい、らしい、とみえる、そう and I am hoping that this is just a missing answer rather than that I am wrong.

I wonder if the みたいに grammar point could have a verb + みたいに example, assuming that is valid.

Aha, I think I see my mistake. This is a みたいな or ような answer. I find slightly weird because I thought that みたいに/ように would act adverbially modifying 言いっていた whereas the な options modify こと.

So what the English is trying to convey is that the topic of their conversation was one that was as if there was not a lot of homework, not the manner of their conversation. So I was deeply confused. Can someone help out here?

hey folks,
I’ve just come to ように in 上級へのとびら and although I’m fine with the usage for similarity, I’ve hit a mental block when it’s used in the follow form:
I discussed it with my teacher for over half an hour and I’m still completely stuck. She provided some more examples like:

the 何々ばわかるように part is throwing me. In my head it reads like “If you do x, you’ll understand” ← like this ← london has a lot of famous places.

Does anyone have any hints, tips, or explanation for how they interpret this usage?


Two things… One, I think you need to break it up like this:

Two, this usage is in line with this grammar point:
[AようにB, A expresses an outcome that is desired but is beyond the will of the speaker (someone tries to influence someone else’s behavior or depends on someone or on some other external circumstances)]
The speaker is influencing the listener to understand and not saying “you will understand”.
わかるように – as you can see, such that you understand (–> you can understand that London has a lot of places)

Ah, thank you!

I did some more searching around and found others that described this usage as “so that, such that, as you can see”

It seems indeed to be the other grammar point you linked. I assumed it was this one as this is the one linked in Chapter 1 of the Tobira course, which is where this is taught, but perhaps the site has it wrong…

That’s basically it. Putting it back together: “As you will see if you look at these pictures, London has a lot of famous places.”

I don’t think we’re talking about London’s motivation for having lots of famous places. (In that construction, B is something one does to facilitate A.)

Hmm, looking closer at https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/628 it seems somewhat different? I interpret that to be more along the lines of “in order to/not to” or “so as to”; for example: “in order not to get a cold, I wear warm clothing”, whereas this usage feels quite different.

I quite like the “as you will” interpretation, so:
As you will understand, if looking at these photos…
As you will understand, if you travel to this place…

I’m wondering how it works with other verbs, can one do something like:

This feels a little bit wrong, but I’m just wondering what sort of other verbs can be used in this scenario.

Hm. That is an unfortunate misreading of my explanation.

I was focused on how ように describes わかる. It is attached to a desired outcome (listener’s understanding), and that outcome is something outside of the speaker’s control. Also here, I see the comma is taking the place of an omitted phrase — the speaker’s action. I added one comma for clarity. (Classical Japanese carried no commas at all.)

この写真を見れば、わかるように 写真を見せてあげる、ロンドンは色々な名所がある
If [one] looks at this picture, I show you this picture [with a hope that] such that [you] understand, as for [with the topic of] London there are various famous places.

Of the Bunpro grammar points, the one I selected seems to be the closest to explain it. If there is another page to point to, I’d happily accept another explanation.
For example, this point could apply as well:

I don’t think there is a desired outcome here.

This interpretation sounds strange to me. The condition has to become true for the consequence to occur. But when the person is already looking at the picture, it’s not necessary (or possible) to show it to them anymore.

And how would one make this work with the second sentence?

The speaker’s desired outcome is “you understand”. Same in both sentences.

A expresses an outcome that is desired

The conditional of ~見れば links with ロンドンは~. The middle is filler where the speaker is trying to politely persuade the listener to agree with the rest of the sentence. I ordered the English parts such that it makes sense in English.

Could you provide your interpretation of the sentence? Or what grammar point makes わかるように into “as you will see”?

This thread’s original grammar point doesn’t work because it’s focused on similarity. There is nothing in the sentences that is similar to “you understand”. You would need something like:
He closed his eyes like he understood. (like showing he understands)

The interesting thing is the example I gave from the text book is taken from the section where the similarity ように grammar is taught (and is also linked to from that chapter here on Bunpro)

My teacher tried to explain the first part of the sentence as being a type of example, which sadly didn’t make things any clearer.

I have a feeling this is another area of grammar that perhaps doesn’t translate well and just needs storing in the “things you just learn” part of the brain without digging too deep into it.

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The 見れば does. みればわかる is a common expression.

I provided my interpretation before. “As you can tell from the picture(s),…”.

The reality that London has a lot of famous places is similar to the understanding you get from looking at photos of it.

Personally, I would write わかったように here.

My impression is that when Japanese speakers use “example” like this, they often mean “illustration”.

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In the sentence" かれくるま工場こうじょうのようなにおいがする",

Why is it ような despite 臭い being an い-adjective?

Smell 臭い(におい) like “what’s that smell/scent? Apples?”
Not that it’s “smelly” like 臭い(くさい)the smelly adjective.

臭い/匂い does end withい but this is a noun. The different kanji can be used, with 臭 having a negative nuance. Although I like factory smelling cars (⁠ب⁠_⁠ب⁠)

“Giving off a factory like smell” “smells like the factory”

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Ah it is good to see you again, I will always remember your Shiny Umbreon PFP lol

Thank you for the explanation, that makes perfect sense now

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