Missing grammar list

Since you guys have finished with all of the grammar points that you planned previously from the book I assume you will start working on other grammar that is not part of the books?

In which case here is a convenient list of things that I found in the wild while reading books that you might want to include in BP.

I will keep updating this list as I see more stuff.

Stuff that you definitely need:

  • あり (opposite of なし)
  • あっと
  • と言うのも
  • verb+がいい
  • ずく (relying entirely on)
  • 僅か
  • you have というわけではない but not と言う訳だ
  • おおよそ
  • ~ざる (i.e. ならざる, 見えざる)
  • ~まんま~
  • ならともかく
  • となると

Stuff that you might want:

  • とけ (short imperative form of ておく)
  • なさそう
  • なかろう

EDIT (05 Feb 2020) - a few more grammar points you need:

  • いずれも
  • ~ごとく
  • がん~ (e.g. がん見)
  • ~っぷり
  • ~やがる (e.g. しやがる)
  • ~振り (e.g. 無茶振り)
  • それまで
  • ~めく
  • およそ
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There is one for ~ざるを得ない

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Well, it is a different thing obviously :slight_smile:
~ざる by itself is a form of negation. Classical maybe? Since there are words like でござる :man_shrugging:

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It’s used that way in the expression too, so the “Reading” links there explain it.

They also say it’s pretty much only used in that expression in modern Japanese. I wouldn’t know, though.

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Nice list. Here are a few that do exist in BP already.

https://www.bunpro.jp/grammar_points/696

Think this an N1, hopefully on their list. I assume ざるを得ない is a most common entry, at least they have that entry.

They have a couple examples in this entry
https://www.bunpro.jp/grammar_points/105

と(も)なると - same thing, right?
https://www.bunpro.jp/grammar_points/752

This sounds like a dialect, do you know where?

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I’ve seen it by itself a lot of times. Just as verb stem+ざる. In completely different situations. But only in manga and anime :slight_smile:
I understand its meaning, but I have no idea what “flavor” it has and why you would use it compared to other forms of negation.

Definitely not. This is as I described it above, just a short imperative form. Rather than a dialect it is more of a slang. Again, I have only seen it in anime and manga :slight_smile: Though, to be fair, I don’t consume much content in japanese other than that, so maybe it is used often in other media too? :slight_smile:

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I wouldn’t personally put ておく contractions in as a grammar point. It seems like that would open the floodgates for a lot of other short forms that can be easily learned through exposure, like ら行 being slurred into ん (止まらない → 止まんない); volitional + か being contracted (行こうか → 行こっか); い becoming え in emphatic/jocular speech (こわい → こえぇ) etc.

Since ておく contractions are so common I definitely think it would be worth having a note on that grammar point itself to make mention of the fact.

Or just add it anyway so I can insta-burn and get some more XP :wink:

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I wouldn’t personally put ておく contractions in as a grammar point. It seems like that would open the floodgates for a lot of other short forms that can be easily learned through exposure, like ら行 being slurred into ん (止まらない → 止まんない); volitional + か being contracted (行こうか → 行こっか); い becoming え in emphatic/jocular speech (こわい → こえぇ) etc.

Perhaps all those contractions could be tucked in under one point?

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I mean, there are lots and lots of ways that textbook Japanese gets adapted to spoken language. I think the best way to learn stuff like this is to start reading native media or listening to people talk (in movies/anime/podcasts etc).

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I just came across an interesting turn of phrase that can maybe be added to future grammar points. I guess this is a good thread to post it in :upside_down_face:

 

I was watching a let’s play of some spooky game, when the player mentioned that the thing she dislikes most after ghosts is bugs. The way she said it was:

  • おばけの次に虫が無理。

(It’s possible that I’ve mistranslated/misinterpreted, but I don’t think I have.) I thought this was interesting because Japanese opts for 次, differing from English using “after,” and then the use of が on 虫 lines up nicely with my understanding that が works for emphasis on the word it appends to, like bugs are what she can’t stand.

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@Kai Maybe I should include other suggestions back into the first message? :slight_smile: If you don’t mind I can include yours.

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I’m not sure if でも何でもない is actually a grammar point but I came across it in a manga and Googling it says that it’s N1 grammar

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How about になると to compliment となると

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Sorry for the late reply, but yeah, an all-in-one-place compilation would be good to have!

I guess my suggestion would be の次に (or maybe just 次に, or (の)次に, depending on how this usage of 次 can be used on verbs :thinking:)

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Another suggestion!

「verbて」+ ちょうだい

as as a casual request to do something.

As described on Tae Kim’s guide to grammar here

EDIT:

Also from what I can see, the imperative form is completely missing. Having searched the forums, this was “on the todo list” back in March '19.
食べろ
飲め
and the exceptions
しろ・こい・くれ

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Also に値する
to deserve something, using dictionary form of verb which is pretty tricky

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Just working through chapter 19 of Genki II, and I would’ve liked a 〜てくださってありがとうございます grammar point to go with the 〜てくれてありがとう grammar point that already exists.

I also wonder if it might be useful to have grammar points for honorific verbs like ごらんになる, or whether one should just learn those while learning vocab? I think it could work in Bunpro, like you’d get a casual sentence with みる and then have to turn it into a honorific sentence.

I am also missing 〜ておる or just おる (Genki 2, ch. 20) generally. It’d go with いらっしゃる.

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Is 尊敬語’s られる・れる on the site? Or am I just blind?

Edit: And while I’m at it, using Integrated Approach, I’ve come across: ただ and に限らない .
Pretty sure there have been more in this book that aren’t on Bunpro, but those are the recent ones.

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@conan
られる honorific is not on the site (yet)
But it is on the to do list. I plan to introduce it asap, since it is very common and easy way to make honorific verbs.

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Seems adding this one would be neat

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